Hiker Lost Near The Tram

[FIGHT ON]

I don't know if signs actually help but the dire warning sign that is posted on the Skyline says nothing about winter conditions. It talks about snakes, needing water, rocks, brush but never once does it mention snow and ice.

Perhaps there's a need to update the warning and include a winter warning as well. Obviously, if someone is not a local they might think they can make it in shorts because it's so warm down here. I can only imagine their surprise on encountering the snow and ice after hours of hiking and not having the strength to turn back and hike down.

I have ranted plenty of times about hiking this trail unprepared or in weather than almost certainly spells disaster but maybe it's time to reassess the information given to hikers on this route before we get our next victim.

(BTW, I am not in any way excusing the need for personal responsibility only trying to think of a way to cut the need for rescues on this route).

Wow!,This is one of your all time best posts I've read. I never noticed the lack of snow/ice warnings on the sign before. I think adding snow/ice warnings would help. Somebody just might read it that didn't know and fetch their gear or just not go altogether until it melts. If it works for only one person in 5 years it's well worth it.
I'm never gonna do it when there is any snow. I've seen the last 1000 feet a handful of times and it doesn't take much to imagination a series of Wammo Slip and Slides draped down those chutes across the traverse section. Not me man! SAR is not gonna see me up there until it's all gone!

I remember reading this on the http://www.geocities.com/cactus2clouds/skyline.html

Skyline in a Nutshell: 4 Things to Know


3. "The ice can kill you. In the winter and spring, the upper section has snow and ice shaded by the trees, even if you can't see it from the desert below. Crampons and ice axe are mandatory, and it's very important to practice using them first. In January of 2004, a very experienced hiker (professional outdoor guide) fell to his death because he slipped down an ice chute. In 2005 there were two separate falls, but fortunately nobody died. One person was injured. The other person barely stopped himself from sliding down the mountain at high speed."

Something like that on a sign would be great!

I was lucky to have read it.
Then I watched the hikers on this board until they said it was clear.
Then I went.

[jspeigl]

I'm not convinced that those that get into trouble didn't know what they were getting into. I would bet that a majority know that there is snow up there, but go anyway, not realizing how bad it can get.

[hikehigh]

I think plain English is the best way to warn people.

At other trail heads they give warning in 2 languages.

[Jim Bakos]

I’m sure it was your duo, Dave. They said one of their group turned around early and headed down.

Skyline is a very popular trail, I know, I sat in the Museum parking lot for several hours during the rescue before this one and lost count on the amount of people that went up Skyline. I know most don’t go all the way to the Tram, but still, it’s a busy route.

Maybe it’s time for you Sky-liners to band together and form a group? You could have a united voice against any closures, raise funds for warning signs and collectively protect the trail/route that you love.

Heck, I’d throw fifty bucks at a new sign! It beats sleeping at the upper Tram station every other weekend!!

At some point this will be managed. It’s only a matter of time before the county and state get tired of paying for these rescues – we (RMRU) don’t get paid, but the Sheriff’s Deputy’s, helicopter crews and Tram staff do. In shrinking budgets the bean counters will cut costs where they can.

I’m afraid if you folks don’t come up with a plan, someone else will and shove it down your throats.

My $0.02 worth…

Hike Safe!

--Jim

These are my opinions, and not advice from any organized Mountain Rescue Team.

[halhiker]

I think plain English is the best way to warn people.

At other trail heads they give warning in 2 languages.

That may not be necessary. I'd be willing to bet that most, if not all, of the people rescued are gringos.

[jspeigl]

Jim,

Maybe someone from RMRU could ask the rescued hikers to donate the cost of the sign. I know that if my like was saved, I would be more than willing.

[halhiker]

I’m sure it was your duo, Dave. They said one of their group turned around early and headed down.

Skyline is a very popular trail, I know, I sat in the Museum parking lot for several hours during the rescue before this one and lost count on the amount of people that went up Skyline. I know most don’t go all the way to the Tram, but still, it’s a busy route.

Maybe it’s time for you Sky-liners to band together and form a group? You could have a united voice against any closures, raise funds for warning signs and collectively protect the trail/route that you love.

Heck, I’d throw fifty bucks at a new sign! It beats sleeping at the upper Tram station every other weekend!!

At some point this will be managed. It’s only a matter of time before the county and state get tired of paying for these rescues – we (RMRU) don’t get paid, but the Sheriff’s Deputy’s, helicopter crews and Tram staff do. In shrinking budgets the bean counters will cut costs where they can.

I’m afraid if you folks don’t come up with a plan, someone else will and shove it down your throats.

My $0.02 worth…

Hike Safe!

--Jim

These are my opinions, and not advice from any organized Mountain Rescue Team.

The Skyline Hikers Association has a nice ring to it although Hikers Absolutely Love Skyline or HALS might be better.

I also would contribute to a new sign. I think the PS Mounted Police did the first sign and had it installed. I used to know some of the PSMP but that was years ago and I don't know whom to contact now. But it's my guess that they would be the people to talk to.

And Jim, If you don't like sleeping out at the Tram every other weekend, maybe you could rent that room out. I've slept in it once and although the amenities are sparse I can't think of a better and more exclusive location.

[jspeigl]

Here is a rough draft of the sign. If anyone has any more input, please feel free. I think it should be kept as short and to the point as possible, so that people just don't ignore it. Anyone know of a sign maker that can give us a quote? If we know how much it costs, we can go from there.

WARNING
Weather and trail conditions change rapidly with elevation.

The weather at Long Valley will be much colder than here. Hikers must be prepared for freezing temperatures and snow. Every year hikers become stranded at higher elevations, suffer hypothermia, and require rescue. During the winter and spring months, and some years into summer, snow and ice will cover the upper portions of this route. Ice and snow on the route creates dangerously slick slopes with high potential for injury or death. THIS ICE CAN KILL YOU. Hikers must be prepared for these conditions. At a minimum:

• Possess winter mountaineering skills including ice ax and crampon use
• Carry extra insulating layers
• Be able to survive through a night, in sub-freezing weather, during a snowstorm

[halhiker]

Here is a rough draft of the sign. If anyone has any more input, please feel free. I think it should be kept as short and to the point as possible, so that people just don't ignore it. Anyone know of a sign maker that can give us a quote? If we know how much it costs, we can go from there.

WARNING
Weather and trail conditions change rapidly with elevation.

The weather at Long Valley will be much colder than here. Hikers must be prepared for freezing temperatures and snow. Every year hikers become stranded at higher elevations, suffer hypothermia, and require rescue. During the winter and spring months, and some years into summer, snow and ice will cover the upper portions of this route. Ice and snow on the route creates dangerously slick slopes with high potential for injury or death. THIS ICE CAN KILL YOU. Hikers must be prepared for these conditions. At a minimum:

• Possess winter mountaineering skills including ice ax and crampon use
• Carry extra insulating layers
• Be able to survive through a night, in sub-freezing weather, during a snowstorm

Don't have time to edit now because I've got a family to feed but my thought is it's too long. Cut out about half to 3/4 of the verbiage and it'll fly.

[FIGHT ON]

The Skyline Hikers Association has a nice ring to it although Hikers Absolutely Love Skyline or HALS might be better.

No Other Trail Has Genuine Ice Fire or NOTHGIF might be better yet.
(that's FIGHT ON backwards!)