Hiker Lost Near The Tram

[halhiker]

I don't know if signs actually help but the dire warning sign that is posted on the Skyline says nothing about winter conditions. It talks about snakes, needing water, rocks, brush but never once does it mention snow and ice.

Perhaps there's a need to update the warning and include a winter warning as well. Obviously, if someone is not a local they might think they can make it in shorts because it's so warm down here. I can only imagine their surprise on encountering the snow and ice after hours of hiking and not having the strength to turn back and hike down.

I have ranted plenty of times about hiking this trail unprepared or in weather than almost certainly spells disaster but maybe it's time to reassess the information given to hikers on this route before we get our next victim.

(BTW, I am not in any way excusing the need for personal responsibility only trying to think of a way to cut the need for rescues on this route).

[AlanK]

I don't know if signs actually help but the dire warning sign that is posted on the Skyline says nothing about winter conditions. It talks about snakes, needing water, rocks, brush but never once does it mention snow and ice.

Perhaps there's a need to update the warning and include a winter warning as well. Obviously, if someone is not a local they might think they can make it in shorts because it's so warm down here. I can only imagine their surprise on encountering the snow and ice after hours of hiking and not having the strength to turn back and hike down.

I have ranted plenty of times about hiking this trail unprepared or in weather than almost certainly spells disaster but maybe it's time to reassess the information given to hikers on this route before we get our next victim.

(BTW, I am not in any way excusing the need for personal responsibility only trying to think of a way to cut the need for rescues on this route).

I agree. People need to take responsibility for themselves and some people will ignore just about any warning, but I have to think that a strong warning about winter conditions would cause some people to turn around.

[bluerail]

When it's 80 degrees or more at the sign, the winter danger would be really hard to convey.

[AlanK]

When it's 80 degrees or more at the sign, the winter danger would be really hard to convey.

That is a legitimate concern. The tendency would be for people to tell themselves "it's hot out -- they can't mean today!" The message would have to convey the idea that it can be 90 degrees down below and still dangerously icy up high. The message should convey the advice that one should not go further up than one is prepared to walk back down. Also mention that rescue personnel risk their lives every winter to try to save people who do not belong up there.

[jspeigl]

Jim,

The last two rescues on the trail were almost identical. Both were unprepared hikers that required rescue near the top. Like you said, this happens more often than it should and puts more lives at risk.

When they are rescued, does RMRU interview the rescuees to find out why they were there unprepared? Is there a common root cause? This might help direct the wording on a new sign. I'm wondering what is needed to prevent this from happening again.

Joe

[halhiker]

When it's 80 degrees or more at the sign, the winter danger would be really hard to convey.

I think plain English is the best way to warn people.

Something like, "In winter and spring, the upper regions of this route may be covered in snow and ice even when the desert temperatures top 100º. During those times, be prepared with proper mountaineering experience and equipment including warm clothing, an ice axe and crampons. Unprepared people have required rescue and others have fallen to their deaths under these conditions. Do not proceed unless properly prepared."

There are some people who will stumble and fall even during the best of weather but at least with a proper warning no one can say that they didn't know.

[Andy]

Let me first say that I realize that this would never come to fruition but....In a way it's unfortunate that Skyline / C2C is considered a "route" and not an established or recognized trail. If it were, there could be a standard wallboard at the trail head where rangers, volunteers etc could post general warnings and "Real Time" weather conditions concerning the trail ahead.

[halhiker]

Let me first say that I realize that this would never come to fruition but....In a way it's unfortunate that Skyline / C2C is considered a "route" and not an established or recognized trail. If it were, there could be a standard wallboard at the trail head where rangers, volunteers etc could post general warnings and "Real Time" weather conditions concerning the trail ahead.

There are "routes" where info is available. The Mountaineer's Route comes to mind.

One difficulty is that there are several agencies involved. I think this route traverses land owned by the BLM, Aqua Caliente Indians, Forest Service and the State Park. The city of Palm Springs and private landowners may even be in there.

I don't know if development of a wallboard is necessary or even desired but a winter warning might be helpful.

[Cy Kaicener]

I wonder if it would help to post snow and ice conditions and which equipment you need (ice axe, crampons, snow shoes etc) at the start of the trail or at the metal sign. Also that route finding is difficult when the trail is covered

[jspeigl]

Who owns the land where the sign is? Would we need permission to add/modify the sign?