Skyline Rescue by climbers

[Hikin_Jim]

Your party was able to self rescue in tough, unexpected conditions. You're aware of your mistakes.

How were conditions unexpected?

They weren't expecting deep powder.

[kevin trieu]

Your party was able to self rescue in tough, unexpected conditions. You're aware of your mistakes.

How were conditions unexpected?

They weren't expecting deep powder.

But one should expect varying snow conditions when they head out in the winter. Trying to predict the level of snow consolidation is like trying to predict the weather. Not very successful in most cases. The party involved said he has done c2c many times and is an experienced mountaineer. He probably knows that the upper parts of the mountain are in the trees and shade which will not consolidate that well. Not sure if the guy forgot his gaitors or he just didn't want to bring them for some reasons. I just thought it is funny a statement like that is made. In any case, good job toughing it out.

[Hikin_Jim]

Your party was able to self rescue in tough, unexpected conditions. You're aware of your mistakes.

How were conditions unexpected?

They weren't expecting deep powder.

But one should expect varying snow conditions when they head out in the winter.

Yes, I'd agree with you there. I was trying not to "beat up" on someone who has just been through a tough experience. Rightly or wrongly, they weren't expecting powder, so that's why I used the term "unexpected."

In any case, good job toughing it out.

Yeah, that might be a bit more what I was driving at. Not to pick on anyone, but I was sort of comparing their experience with stobbart's recent experience. I think they handled it well in that respect.

Again, not to pick on anyone, but I can see several points along the way where different decisions might have been helpful. I'm tired (haven't slept well the last 3 days), so I hope the following comes out right. I'm trying to stimulate thought and discussion not criticize. Disclaimer: I by no means am a mountaineering safety expert.
-7:00 and 8:00 AM seem like pretty late starts for this time of year. Not much margin for error if you get held up.
-As Kevin points out, one does have to anticipate and be able to handle varying snow conditions on a winter trip.
-Maybe some form of improvised gaiters would have been in order. Granted, easier said than done, but perhaps worth trying. Duct tape (or perhaps the tape in your first aid kit) comes to mind. I may be engaging in some whimsical thinking on this point.
-When they talked with Doreen, perhaps they should have paused and re-evaluated their plans.

We met one other ... who turned back at 7000 feet because of bad snow conditions.

Given the new info and their level of preparedness, perhaps they should have done likewise. Again, not trying to be critical; just (hopefully) stating observations. I know how hard it is to turn back after you're on the route and going strong, but one has to constantly integrate new information and adjust accordingly. Failure to do so may not turn out well. Note: I'm not sure if the first two talked with Doreen or only the second three. Irrespectively, the principle stands.

I say all of this in the comfort of a warm comfortable room to mountaineers that are probably more experienced than I am, so take whatever I say with a "pinch of salt". I perhaps write these things for my own benefit as much as anyone else's. The real shame of going through a trial is to not learn the lesson(s).

Dang I'm wordy today. Told you I was tired.

[superal1110]

I wanted to add a little bit to the discussion that seems to be causing a bit of stir among many people on the forums.

Joe and I spoke just yesterday regarding the situation that took place as well as the news article that followed. We both agreed that the article seems very exaggerated. The headline itself is very amusing and very misleading. The two cold hikers were indeed cold...but were not lost or at the slightest bit injured. They had done a very good job of warming up their feet by the time we had arrived and joined together as a party of 5 once again. Of course, without gaiters, they would not have been able to proceed and it was great that we all worked together to break trail for them as it made it alot easier on their feet. But the energy to continue was no doubt there ( they have done Snow Creek numerous times).

I also want to clear up one small detail regarding our meeting with Doreen. I am not aware of our two friends meeting up and speaking with her but I can indeed confirm that my party of three, including Joe, spoke with her.

When we spoke to her she said it was "stupid" to even attempt what we just did and people on these boards seem to be agreeing with that assessment. I have to strongly disagree that with the proper preperation, experience, starting time and physical endurance that c2c is VERY doable...even in its current conditions. That is not to say that it was easy...but it WAS INCREDIBLY FUN despite the challenge of deep powdered snow. Cmon...this is my first time even mountaineering or using crampons and my party had such a blast. I woud LOVE to do it again.

Again...it all goes back to being adequetly prepared for all types of conditions that may be present when attempting mountaineering. c2c is very doable. Just be prepared with all the right gear.

I do have pictures and the story on facebook. I have the option of sharing but I need the emails of those who are interested. Send me an email at superal1110@aol.com if you want the story and pictures.

[Cy Kaicener]

Hikerhell has picked up the newspapers version of the story. The blog link is not working, but they will pick up our message board thread later They are posting a different rescue every couple of hours.
http://hikerhell.blogspot.com

[AlanK]

When we spoke to her she said it was "stupid" to even attempt what we just did and people on these boards seem to be agreeing with that assessment. I have to strongly disagree that with the proper preperation, experience, starting time and physical endurance that c2c is VERY doable...even in its current conditions. That is not to say that it was easy...but it WAS INCREDIBLY FUN despite the challenge of deep powdered snow. Cmon...this is my first time even mountaineering or using crampons and my party had such a blast. I woud LOVE to do it again.

My $0.02 worth -- I have read stories (not the latest one under discussion here) after which I felt like "it was stupid for that party to be attempting C2C under those conditions." That does not mean that it is always stupid for anyone to try it under the same conditions.

[kevin trieu]

I find message boards entertaining. I might be addicted to them. You'll always have someobdy stiring something out of nothing. You also have the media that knows very little about the sport getting into the mix stirring things up.

This message board has a lot of people on the convervative side. There's a sense that they need to protect this area from outsiders. Especially outsiders that take risks and getting into trouble which might compromise future access to the area. This is understandable. It happens all the time in many areas.

I'll end my little rambling with this quote. This is where I stand. The struggle continues.

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover" -Mark Twain

[Dave G]

This is not a pot-stirring effort, but I'm curious as to exactly what kind of footwear the guy with the cold feet was sporting. He puts the blame on forgetting his gaiters, but in reality most gaiters provide little in the way of actual insulation, though they will keep your feet a little drier in wet snow. With a decent pair of waterproof mountaineering boots and good socks, forgetting the gaiters on this trip should have been of minor consequence and more of just an annoyance. On the other hand, if he were trying to hike through the snow in trail runners, that would definitely be a problem. Good they were able to avoid a rescue though.

Dave

[Perry]

Whether a climb is stupid depends on a variety of factors such as equipment and skills, and I think there is a gray area between "stupid" and "safe." Calling someone negative things may have the opposite of the intended effect. That is, they may not turn around because of pride. I think it's more persuasive to mention the facts: rescues, body recoveries, lack of popularity this time of year, and talk to people in a respectful way. Being judgmental is natural, I am judgmental sometimes, but it usually doesn't change anything.

Money also plays a role in how much equipment some people carry. It's nice to have everything, but not everyone can afford to buy it. I used to borrow or rent equipment and use my trail running shoes and put plastic sandwich bags over my socks. I've climbed Mt. Hood a few times with tent stakes. These days it's very nice to have winter climbing boots, my own ice axe and crampons, snowshoes, poles, mountaineering socks, and a decent jacket. But if I didn't have all those things I would squeeze by on sandwich bags and toe warmers.

And yes, Skyline is a lot of fun with snow. Think about it: you pass cactus plants and yuccas, maybe see a rattlesnake in the spring time, and then later on it's a totally different world.

[Dave G]

Right on, Perry. We humans seem to learn best by doing. The old plastic bag trick has saved my butt, er feet, on more than one occasion! Even with all the "right" equipment, I usually have a couple in the bottom of my pack on extended winter trips--just in case.

Dave