Help update San Gorgonio Trail Map

[Tom Harrison]

Hi folks. Many of you know that I publish a San Gorgonio Wilderness Trail Map. What you might not know is that I have 60 map titles in print right now and keeping them all up to date is quite a bit of work. So I'm asking you, the people who know San Gorgonio (and San Jacinto and a lot of other places), to send me your updates and comments. Things change all the time in the wilderness and the Forest Service does not always have the most accurate or timely info. Let me know when changes occur on trails, roads, campgrounds, names, etc. But only permanent changes, not seasonal or temporary changes. If you can sketch the trail changes in Topo! and send it to me as a .jpg that would be great. If there are changes in trail distances, I prefer them to be measured with a measuring wheel, not a GPS. What do you get for your effort? Well, basically a good feeling in your heart that you may be helping future outdoor users have a better experience. Thanks much.

[KathyW]

Tom: Do you have a deadline for the updates or are you continuously accepting updated information?

Kathy

[Tom Harrison]

The San Gorgonio map will probably be reprinted in the very early spring of 2008, but things change all the time and I keep an update file on every map so when you see something that you think should be added, deleted, corrected, or changed, please let me know and I'll attach the note to the correct map. I should note that on trail changes I don't need info on cross-country or unmaintained routes - only officially sanctioned trails. This protects the wiilderness resources and helps keep the unprepared from getting themselves into trouble.

[magikwalt]

Tom its a shame you eliminate the XC and unmaintained trails. There is a map of the Coachella Valley that is no long published and isn't available for purchase any longer. It is two sided and used to be passed out to members of the local equestrian club. The map shows some of the local area classics which aren't found on most of the current maps.

I believe that the Desert Map shop has one of the few remaining copies as do my hiking partner and I. (Its his but I steal it once in awhile.)

[Tom Harrison]

Unmaintained trails cause a lot of problems for both the outdoor community and the public agencies responsible for safeguarding the resources. Those trails are not patrolled, so when things go wrong people get hurt. My background as a former State Park Ranger may be influencing that decision but I feel I have a responsibility to my customers to avoid sending them in a direction that could lead them into trouble. I also have a responsibility to the land management agencies to not publish information that could lead to a degradation of resources or endanger the safety of the public. Mapping involves being selective about the kind of information that is put on the map as well as the kind that is left off the map. There is sometimes a very fine line between what people want to know and what they need to know to enjoy their outdoor experience. I would rather leave off the questionable items than have someone get hurt or have our natural resources be more damaged than they already are.

[Hikin_Jim]

Hi, Tom,

I appreciate your maps. Been using the SGW map for a long time, and I see a lot of improvement on the mileages based on the copy I got in the mid 90's vs. the copy I picked up this past summer.

The one mileage that I know about that might still be off is the mileage from the Aspen Grove TH to the junction with the Fish Cr Trail. I don't have my maps in front of me here at work, but I'll check over the weekend. The original TH was further west where a dirt road came up from the Santa Ana River/Big Meadows area. The "new" trailhead is off of 1N05 now.

Your maps are great, and I'll respect whatever standard you set for trail inclusion/exclusion, but I will say that the unmaintained stretch of trail that goes from Johns Meadow to the junction with the SB Pk Trail in the vicinity of Manzanita Springs is in better shape than many of the officially maintained trails in the forest (e.g. the section of trail between the two San Bernardino Peaks). This section of trail was closed due to budget constraints not to protect any particular site. I notice on some of your older maps that you would mark certain routes with small black dotted lines. I always appreciated those black dots since they gave me an idea of where the route was, which is safer for me than to know a route exists but have no way to know whether I'm on route or not. Just my $0.02 worth.

Maps are a lot of work, so, again, I respect whatever decision you make regarding inclusion/exclusion.

[Hikin_Jim]

Tom:

1. There is one trail mileage that I think should be checked. The old San Gorgonio Wilderness Assoc. mileage diagaram, http://www.sgwa.org/map2.htm, shows the distance from the Aspen Grove TH to the junction with the trail coming in from the Fish Creek Trail Head as 3.0 miles as does your 2006 version of the SG Wilderness map. Note in the SGWA diagram the bend in the trail about 25% of the way to the junction with the trail from Fish Creek TH. This bend is where the current Aspen Grove TH is located. The old diagram reflects a TH which is no longer there. Given the relocation of the trailhead, I think that the mileage from the Aspen grove TH to the junction with the trail coming in from the Fish Creek TH should be re-checked. NOTE: Your map shows the Aspen Grove TH in the correct spot.

2. The trail heading west from the current Aspen Grove TH does go down Fish Creek a ways, but it to my knowledge no longer goes through to the Santa Ana River area. I have personally tried to follow it to no avail. I talked to some horsemen recently. They had also had the same experience. Further, I recently signed up for a Sierra Club Trip. The leader discussed using the trail from the Santa Ana River, but then wrote us later that he had been advised that said trail no longer goes through. You might want to give that one a look.

3. Several of the trails in the Aspen Grove/Santa Ana River/Big Meadows/Coon Creek area don't have mileages posted on them. I'm not sure that is necessarily a problem, but I thought I'd mention it.

4. This is really minor, but your 2006 map shows Alger Creek Trail Camp on the east side of Alger Creek. In reality the TC is on the W side of the creek. This may be too minor a point to trifle with. At least you don't show the TC on the top of the next ridge to the east as does the USFS issued "Guide to the SG Wilderness."

Hope this is helpful,

HJ

[Rob]

Tom, you have a great product. I purchased SGW (2006) a couple of months ago because it showed the unmaintained trail between Johns Meadow and Manzanita Springs -- a trail not shown on my Garmin digital topo. I knew that your SGW might contain other useful gems.

A few months ago someone talked me into descending the Lower Falls Creek Trail. "Known only to locals," he said. If I had known that the trail was closed because it crossed private property in Forest Falls, I would not have used that route.

If it were possible, my humble preference would be that maps show all trails (to acknowledge their existence) and mark those closed. Acknowledging their existence would help with land navigation.