Fish creek or vivian?

[drndr]

Wanting to do SAn G in a day hike. MOst I see on here talk of vivian creek. What of Fish creek? I do skyline (museum to tram) in 6.5 hours.
How long approx. for vivian and or Fish creek. Which is generally the easiest? I have not done it before. Any insight would be nice.

[zippetydude]

Hi drndr.

Vivian is most popular probably because it's the shortest drive. The South Fork Trailhead, which also leads to the peak, is probably 20+ minutes additional drivetime. Fish Creek is about 10 further still on Highway 38, then about another 30 minutes driving on a rutted, mildly difficult dirt road.

The trails start at different elevations, however, with Vivian about 6000, South Fork about 7000, and Fish Creek a little over 8000. Because of this, Vivian is probably the hardest (with about 5500 feet of elevation gain), then South Fork, and then Fish Creek. They're all very nice trails, so I think you'll have a great time either way. Hope this helps.

z

[Hikin_Jim]

For me, Fish Creek is definitely the easier. You're starting at around 8000 instead of around 6000.

The draw back to Fish Creek is the dirt road which does take time but isn't that bad. I think most people feel more comfortable with a high clearance vehicle. I've always been able to get to the TH in a sedan. I was up there yesterday with my Honda Accord. The road was fine for me, although I only went as far as Aspen Grove. I've also read recent reports of sedans being seen at the trail head.

Fish Creek is a bit longer (9.1 miles one way vs. 7.8 miles), but you can shave some miles off by XC'ing it up the prominent SE ridge of San Gorgonio from where the trail crosses the ridge, making the mileage approximately the same as from Viv Cr.

If you've done Skyline, however, you should be able to do either the Fish Creek or the Vivian Creek route (or the Dry-Dollar Loop). The only difference might be the altitude. San G is 11,500 whereas Skyline tops out at 8000 and some change (unless you're going C2C all the way to the peak).

Fish Creek is probably the less used and goes through some interesting country. Viv Creek gets a lot of use, but has a lot of gain for training purposes and is easier to get to. The S. Fork Dry-Dollar (or reverse) loop is a great tour of a good chunk of the back country but is 22.9 miles round trip.

[drndr]

Thank you. Good info. So if I can do Museum to Tram in 6.5 hours, what would be your guess for Vivian TH to San G peak. Also is it easy find and not frowned upon to do the XC route up the east side? Most wilderness areas like to keep you to established trails.

[Hikin_Jim]

No problem doing XC there on that ridge. Fairly remote, seldom visited. Rocky, durable surface; unlikely to damage environment.

Ridge is pretty easy to locate. Take a look at the topo. On the stretch of the trail coming up from Mine Shaft Saddle on the East side of San G, you'll see a series of switchbacks. The switchbacks top out and go over a ridge trending to the SE from the top of San G. From the point where the trail tops out and crosses ridge, turn right (NW) and just follow the crest of the ridge to San G. Very little XC nav skill required; pretty straight forward.

You can also cut off some mileage by going straight up the drainage from the second switchback above Fish Creek Trail Camp instead of taking the trail. Don't go up the drainage from the first switchback cause that stretch is pretty brushy (willow thickets) and steep. The trail though longer is actually worth it here. If you take this short cut, the route from Fish Creek is actually shorter than via Viv Creek.

Won't hazard a guess now on times. Let me think about that.

[Hikin_Jim]

So if I can do Museum to Tram in 6.5 hours, what would be your guess for Vivian TH to San G peak?

OK, so if you're doing Skyline which is 11 miles and about 8000' gain in 6.5 hours, then for San G which is 8 miles and about 6000' gain, I'm thinking about 5 hours for the ascent (only). Do recall that there's no tram and you've got to walk back down.

[zippetydude]

As far as a time estimate, I think Jim's right on. Another thing you might consider would be to take the Aspen Grove trailhead. It cuts off most of the drive to the Fish Creek Trailhead (it's only about a mile into the 7 mile dirt road), and I like to spend extra time on the trail instead of driving. Still, Fish Creek is a fun adventure, and I would definitely recommend doing it at least once. I've never tried the XC route that Jim mentioned - sounds like a nice variation, especially if you're going to do the trail more than once.

z

[drndr]

Thank you, I was thinking I would give myself 5 hours also and myabe 3.5 to 4 coming back down vivian creek. Although would love to go back fish creek to save on my knees. Just did baldy via ski hut (3 hrs ascent) and the descent was rough! By the way, love everyones contributions. Long time time reader, first time contributer.

[zippetydude]

Welcome to the board! I hope to see you on the trail.z

[KathyW]

If I push myself I can do the Skyline trail to the tram in 7 hours, but it's more comfortable if I take 8 hours. For San Gorgonio it's 5 hours if I push and longer if I do a more relaxing hike. If you can do Skyline in 6.5 hours comfortably then you should be able to do Vivian in 5 hours or less unless the higher elevation slows you down.

3 hours is about how long Baldy takes me too via the Ski Hut Trail - I've done it in less time but it was hard.

Once the snow comes my times are sometimes double what they would be on a clear trail.