Osmanthus wrote:adamghost wrote:Weeellll....I'm sure you're aware that writers often use a certain flair to make the writing more interesting. So Sherlock Holmes might just be such a device, not to be taken quite this seriously. But as to the logical reasoning I'm quite serious...
So just to engage you here, because you raise some good points, but seem to misunderstand a few things, and it's fun:
...
I'd be interested to hear your theory.
Here's my delayed response (I forgot about all this, to be honest!), to your reply which was made in a rather better spirit than I made my criticism. My apologies!
I did indeed read most of your blog although I confess that it's very hard not to jump over paragraphs because I think your style could do with being more concise. At the end of the day, that's my problem, not yours. It's your blog after all. I do apologize! I've gone over it again - word by word this time - and my opinion on your use of Sherlock's maxim stands, and your application of Occam's razor. I'll try to re-make my point following the flow of your blog. Apologies to everyone else for the length of this post!
1) Sifting facts section - I'm on-board here, except for this:
>Crucially, this kind of apples-to-apples comparison also tell us that it isn’t enough to just poke holes in someone else’s theory; one has to assert an alternative theory that fits the facts better, using the same criteria, to supplant it.
I disagree on this point. Why should an alternative theory be supplied? A theory is formed when a hypothesis is supported by evidence. If one can find evidence that is inconsistent with the hypothesis - that is, poke holes in the hypothesis - then the theory is weakened accordingly. The theory need not be supplanted by another one; it is enough that the theory is shown to be inconsistent with the facts. As long as we're talking scientific method, this is it. Sure, we don't get anywhere without eventually advancing a better theory, but a faulty theory shouldn't be defended by "you don't have a good theory either!"
2) Skeptic's bias section:
>Occam’s Razor doesn’t mean the simplest answer is almost always right – it just states the simplest hypothesis with the fewest assumptions (very key difference there) should be tested first.
Very true. Occam's razor is a good guide to practical investigation, though it isn't a philosophical truth. On your phrasing, I think an interesting question is: is Occam's razor determined by only the number of assumptions, or also on their quality? If I make one out-there assumption to explain an event, and you make two mundane assumptions, which of our approaches is better applied to Occam's razor?
3) Sherlock Holmes and Deductive reasoning
This is where my first objection came in, and I stand by it: you conflate impossible with improbable.Examples:
>“once you eliminate the impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.”
> One might break evidence into these categories: definitely true, most likely true, possibly true, most likely not true, giving greater weight to the earlier categories. How do we determine these categories? Again, we use the scientific method – weigh each fact on its own, and weigh the evidence in favor or against its truth, compare them, and see where it takes us.
The second quote is not in line with the first. Sherlock talks in a dichotomy of options; you outline a continuum. To be fair, you do say:
>To knock those things out of consideration we have to show how those things are so unlikely as to be impossible (not just that they sound crazy),
but this is not what you end up practising, in my opinion. You mention three assumptions that you say are awfully unlikely. (By the way, I'm also inclined to believe Mimi Gorman, cautiously, but I don't think there was foul play.) But this is not enough grounds to reject it by Sherlock's maxim. In fact he implies that improbability is certainly not enough to reject a hypothesis. He says "...however improbable, must be the truth". Improbability is not a criterion for rejection, by Sherlock. Maybe it is by Occam's razor! Which you acknowledge. But Sherlock's method is not equivalent to Occam's razor.
Sure, maybe Sherlock is a writer's flair, but in my opinion it is misleading to the reader and logically inconsistent with the rest of your post.
>>("Could Bill have moved his car by himself while a search was underway for him")
>Yup. Talked about that at some length too. I don't know if that could have happened "without realizing" but sure, maybe.
Come now, be fair. You mentioned this in passing but spent much more time on foul play and that inholding. If I'm still missing this then I owe you a beer.
4) Unless something specific happened... [and following]
Quoting...
>The whole U-haul deal was improbable, but when you looked pretty close at the fact pattern, was it really all that more improbable than that Greyson AND Gorman, both park employees, were totally off their hat?
Your caveat following this statement granted, but this is a false dichotomy. The options are not: "Greyson and Gorman are nuts OR the U-Haul!" Other options are self-disappearance, like you say, or a host of other options. Earlier in this thread I suggested that Ewasko lost his phone on the way up in Big Morongo. I'm not married to the theory, but I like it because not only did it not require many assumptions (i.e. Bill loses his phone, realizes it later and goes looking for it), but it also eliminated an assumption (why go north of Quail?) and had explanatory power (i.e. why Bill was late, might possibly explain moving the car). In truth it does have one more assumption if this last is true: it means someone had to not see him moving it. But that's no bigger an assumption than using a U-Haul.
My point is that one can come up with any number of theories that make very few assumptions. The purpose of an assumption is to ensure a theory is consistent with the facts. It does not actually give us reason to believe the theory. This, I think, sums up my objection to the inholding especially, and the U-Haul as well. The only reason you use the inholding in your argument is because it's there and you posited foul play, not because you have any reason to suspect it was involved in foul play. Do you agree that there is a difference?
Again:
>>"If the ranger is correct, must there be foul play? Or is it merely likely that there is foul play?"
>Well, again, let me correct the premise. When I was talking about eliminating foul play I specifically talked about THE INHOLDING. So to me, if you can eliminate a means by which Bill can encounter someone on his hike who does him harm and can get rid of his remains, you can pretty much eliminate foul play. Yes, it could have happened at the parking area, but one would expect there to be some evidence of that there, and there wasn't.
You have eliminated nothing. You have only said that some explanations require more (or more difficult) assumptions than others. This is not elimination: it is only an application of Occam's razor.
>But to grapple with your central premise: it's simply not true that all assumptions are created equal and there's no way to assess them - nor that because we can't technically rule out any improbable scenario we can't rule out anything at all. Some things, such as UFO abductions, are technically possible but I think we can rule them out for the purposes of narrowing things down.
I agree with this. My problem is with how you apply it. I suppose the best way I can articulate it is: I think the space of reasonable assumptions is much, much larger than you appear to think it is. My suggestion about losing a phone is just one path to take in this whole space. So is your inholding and U-Haul theory. Another way to say it is that Occam's razor can be applied in a vast number of ways. We could theorize about it all day. The only reason I have to believe your theory is that it suggests a consistent picture with consistent assumptions.
Finally, do believe me when I say Mimi's testimony has always been much more compelling to me than the ranger's. In my post I was speaking from examples. Clearly I should have articulated this better. And for what it's worth, I think the whole dog thing is super weird too.
So in what I hope is a conciliatory point, I agree with your philosophy (except for the Sherlock thing), I just disagree with your application. I don't mean to be aggressive, I just get a bit "animated"!