Mt. San Jacinto Outdoor Recreation

Meanwhile, back at the stove blog: What's the best stove for *all* conditions?.

It's kind of a general post, but as you read through it, you may get an idea of what stove makes the best choice for what conditions.

Enjoy,

HJ

Hi HJ,
I just got my permit for the High Sierra Trail for September, and have been on the fence as to whether to bring my Rapidfire or Jetboil. I don't think cold is going to be too big of an issue, but what about altitude? I've used the Jetboil at 10,000' with no problem. We might be staying the night on Whitney (did it before and the sunrise and sunset were awesome) and I don't know if the Jetboil will work up there.

I'm leaning toward bringing my Rapidfire. Could you please address the effect of altitude on stoves? (If you've done so already, could you post a link, pretty please?)

Sally wrote:Hi HJ,
I just got my permit for the High Sierra Trail for September, and have been on the fence as to whether to bring my Rapidfire or Jetboil. I don't think cold is going to be too big of an issue, but what about altitude? I've used the Jetboil at 10,000' with no problem. We might be staying the night on Whitney (did it before and the sunrise and sunset were awesome) and I don't know if the Jetboil will work up there.

I'm leaning toward bringing my Rapidfire. Could you please address the effect of altitude on stoves? (If you've done so already, could you post a link, pretty please?)

Hi, Sally,

For gas stoves, generally higher is better. The higher you go, the lower the outside air pressure. The lower the outside pressure, the more that gas wants to come bursting out of that high pressure canister. With respect to altitude, either stove should work equally well.

Since altitude really won't make much difference between the two stoves, I might look at group size, type of cooking, and expected wind.

If you're going with three or more people, I'd pretty much go with the Rapidfire which can accommodate larger pots. If I were going Solo, I would probably take the JB. For two people, either stove would be fine.

For just boiling water, the JB is great. If I wanted to do more sophisticated cooking, I'd probably pick the Rapidfire.

If moderate winds are expected, the Jetboil will do well. In high winds, the JB's somewhat limited wind protection may not be sufficient. The Rapidfire may do better under those conditions, but if it's really windy, it may be hard to work with the Rapidfire's aluminum windscreen. You can brace the Rapidfire's windscreen with rocks, logs, etc. without fear of overheating the canister. DO NOT put a complete windscreen (rocks, aluminum, or whatever) around the JB. The JB sits directly atop the fuel. If the windscreen traps too much heat, you won't have a stove, you'll have Roman Candle. Hope your life insurance is paid up.

One last thing: the piezo-electric ignition system of a Jetboil is notoriously unreliable. Pack you a nice Bic lighter. Avoid lighters with piezo-electric ignitions above 7,000'.

HJ

Thank you, Jim. I didn't know that higher is better. I am aware of the rule about not putting a windscreen around my JB.

Yeah, I know what you mean about the piezzo-electric ignition on the JB. I don't even bother with it any more. Why is a lighter with a piezo-electric ignition not a good choice above 7,000'?

Thanks again,
Sally

Sally wrote: Why is a lighter with a piezo-electric ignition not a good choice above 7,000'?

Piezo electric ignitions on a lighter become unreliable somewhere around 7,000' to 8,000' in elevation, particularly in cold, windy weather. I have had a piezo-electric lighter work at about 10,000' on a warm summer day, but it was pretty hit or miss whether or not it would light at that altitude.

Someone once explained to me why, but I don't recall the specifics right off. It has something to do with the air getting thinner with the increasing altitude and how that lack of atmospheric density affects the spark. If you're really interested, I could look it up...

HJ

I have a "Windmill" piezo electric lighter. It was pretty expensive, but claims to be windproof to 80 mph, water resistant, shockproof, etc. I haven't tried it at high elevation yet. I guess I will bring a backup (Bic, matches) just in case.

I will try to remember to fire her up on my hike tomorrow and see what happens.

Sally wrote:I have a "Windmill" piezo electric lighter. It was pretty expensive, but claims to be windproof to 80 mph, water resistant, shockproof, etc. I haven't tried it at high elevation yet. I guess I will bring a backup (Bic, matches) just in case.

I will try to remember to fire her up on my hike tomorrow and see what happens.

I've got a Windmill also. Nice lighter, in general, although the flip top gets in the way a lot when lighting some stoves. It is a piezo electric lighter, and I have had problems with it around 8000' in elevation.

HJ

I've always divided them into two general categories; 1)best heat output for the weight, and 2) lightest weight.

1) would be stoves I'd use on longer trips or trips requiring lots of use, such as melting snow or feeding a group. These are liquid fueled stoves with a fuel bottle. My choice here is the Whisperlite. Fairly easy to use and pretty reliable, easy to tinker with on the trail. One full fuel bottle might be heavy, but its more convenient than the equivalent volume of isobutane canisters.

2) these would be the isobutane canister stoves. Light, simple to operate, great for lightweight summer trips where all I want to do is heat water, or I'm by myself. Choice here is an MSR Superfly. Its burner is wider than a Pocket Rocket, its a little more stable than a PR, and I got it cheap!

And a fun novelty stove: SVEA 123. First one I had got crushed under a car's wheel, current one is about 12 years. Still like to take it on a trip once in a while, makes folks wonder what it is and what type of voodoo magic is needed to make it work. Kind of heavy, smallish fuel tank, but an interesting conversation piece and a great, proven design.

Jim,
Just got the Soto OD-1R microregulator stove and can't wait to try it out on San Gorgonio in a week and a half. As far as cannister stoves go, I read the regulator solves the cold weather problems, the dome shaped burner decreases boil time, and the built in igniter is high quality, so it will last more than a few dozen lights. And it weighs a mere 2.6 ozs. Have you guys reviewed this one on the blog (I saw the Muka)? I'll let you know how this one performs!

phydeux wrote:I've always divided them into two general categories; 1)best heat output for the weight, and 2) lightest weight.

1) would be stoves I'd use on longer trips or trips requiring lots of use, such as melting snow or feeding a group. These are liquid fueled stoves with a fuel bottle. My choice here is the Whisperlite. Fairly easy to use and pretty reliable, easy to tinker with on the trail. One full fuel bottle might be heavy, but its more convenient than the equivalent volume of isobutane canisters.

2) these would be the isobutane canister stoves. Light, simple to operate, great for lightweight summer trips where all I want to do is heat water, or I'm by myself. Choice here is an MSR Superfly. Its burner is wider than a Pocket Rocket, its a little more stable than a PR, and I got it cheap!

Those are actually pretty practical working categories. I myself continue to use white gas most of the time since it's so cheap and I use my stoves frequently. A canister of gas costs about $5.00 for the small size. The equivalent in white gas is about $0.30.

phydeux wrote:And a fun novelty stove: SVEA 123. First one I had got crushed under a car's wheel, current one is about 12 years. Still like to take it on a trip once in a while, makes folks wonder what it is and what type of voodoo magic is needed to make it work. Kind of heavy, smallish fuel tank, but an interesting conversation piece and a great, proven design.

I still use my old, 1960's Svea 123. It's a great stove. Of all the backpacking type stoves that came out in the 1950's and 60's, the Svea 123 (the "R" version since the 1970's) is the only one that is still made today.

Weight wise, the Svea 123 is comparable to the MSR Whisperlite. One of the reasons that the Svea 123 was (and is) so popular (besides being rock solid reliable) is that it is so much lighter than other stoves of the same class.

HJ