FASTER

[FIGHT ON]

I drank a starbucks double shot and then cut a switchback today in your honor FO!

catch me if you can.

im insulted because you didn't kick any cairns over.

[zippetydude]

I'm a little confused. Although I kinda like caffeine, I have to agree with you that if it enhances performance, it should not be allowed in competitive athletics. Where you're losing me is on the use of the word cheating.

If a runner in a marathon cuts a corner, thus gaining an unfair advantage because he's running a shorter distance, that's cheating. However, if I'm standing at a trailhead and decide to go cross country instead of taking the trail, that's not cheating. It has nothing to do with anyone else, and may be my choice because I want to see new terrain - it's unrelated to any competition.

So, I recognize that you don't feel caffeine is a good choice for health reasons. However, clarify for me: If a person has a cup of coffee before starting a non-competitive event like a hike, are you concerned about their health, or do you think caffeine use is (for some reason other than cheating) morally reprehensible?

I'm not messin' with you on this - I'm actually curious.

z

[FIGHT ON]

these things (hell, all things) are never black and white issues, as much as Fight On and others would like to believe.

I tend to assume that athletes are doing whatever they can to win...and with that most are using the most advanced technology in similar fashions...for instance I presume Lance Armstrong has taken PED's but also that so is most everyone else at his level. If that is true, then he still is 'better' than them in the relative sense.

Same with Barry Bonds. he took PED's...and well so did most of rest of the MLB. He still performed better, relatively. (we can agree that perhaps the absolute 73 HR was a bit much, but it was still more than others who were also taking PEDs)

players are like companies trying to make a profit...they are going to do all things they can to make a profit. you should assume so, and then blame the regulatory government for not doing its job.

where do you draw the black & white line? 'normal' foods have effects on performance. so does water. those are natural, but so are items with caffeine. where do you draw the line?

everyone is using technological advances. shoes, hiking poles in hiking. hell 'old timers' complain about gps as an unreasonable crutch, but at one time a map and compass were also a big technological advance. so where do you draw the line?

If there is nothing wrong with anything you consume then why not reveal all that you consume on your hikes? Come on, be honest, I mean, after all, you do state how much water you carry! Why not all that, (other stuff)?
and don't go saying something like, I never failed a drug test, like lance does, (according to zip) otherwize people will get suspicious. you don't want people gettin suspicious do you?
ok then. out with it then!

[AlanK]

If there is nothing wrong with anything you consume then why not reveal all that you consume on your hikes? Come on, be honest, I mean, after all, you do state how much water you carry! Why not all that, (other stuff)?

For a guy who doesn't want his picture taken by other hikers, you sure are big about having other people reveal things.

[Hikin_Jim]

Carbs = sports doping. Anyone who has used carbs* on a hike in the last 10 years is now banned forever from the sport.

Use of water artificially increases peformance and gives a hiker an unfair advantage over those who don't. Possession of such a performance enhancing substance is strictly forbidden.

If you can't absorb it from the air around you, then it's clearly an artifical performance enhancer and is therefore forbidden. It's only fair. All reasonable people will agree with me.



*or other unethical substances such as protein.

[zippetydude]

Hey, here's a slight variation on this topic that I was not expecting to hear:

Rumor has it that some people (not on this board) often use psychoactive substances that do not enhance performance (although I guess the goal is to enhance the experience in some other fashion?) on the trail.

Now, I'm not totally naive, but I was kinda surprised. Who wants to feel tired the whole way and crave Life Cereal all the way to the top?

In a marathon that I ran, there were some people offering margaritas at mile 22. Now, 4.2 miles later I'd have taken the whole blender, but at mile 22, I still have some tough work to do - the hardest 4 miles of the day. Some folks did stop and get a margarita. I don't think any less of them, I'm just baffled.

Kooky world.

z

[AlanK]

Rumor has it that some people (not on this board) often use psychoactive substances that do not enhance performance (although I guess the goal is to enhance the experience in some other fashion?) on the trail.

Hey -- I, for one do not believe that FO uses psychoactive substances! That's gotta be the real him.

[FIGHT ON]

I'm a little confused. Although I kinda like caffeine, I have to agree with you that if it enhances performance, it should not be allowed in competitive athletics. Where you're losing me is on the use of the word cheating.

If a runner in a marathon cuts a corner, thus gaining an unfair advantage because he's running a shorter distance, that's cheating. However, if I'm standing at a trailhead and decide to go cross country instead of taking the trail, that's not cheating. It has nothing to do with anyone else, and may be my choice because I want to see new terrain - it's unrelated to any competition.

So, I recognize that you don't feel caffeine is a good choice for health reasons. However, clarify for me: If a person has a cup of coffee before starting a non-competitive event like a hike, are you concerned about their health, or do you think caffeine use is (for some reason other than cheating) morally reprehensible?

I'm not messin' with you on this - I'm actually curious.

z

how could you be confused?
I've read that caffeine caused brittle bones. Of course that is a concern. but the main thing is when it is used specifically to enhance a performance. Regardless weather it is kept a secret or not, especially because it does not represent what is claimed. it's a waste of that persons time because it does not represent what the person would have done w/o it. That time is gone forever. a waste.

[phydeux]

Intersting discussion. Here's another conundrum concerning Diamox;

You can go to most third-world countries and get Diamox over the counter in pharmacies. From personal experience I know its available in Mexico City (the Mexican Volcanos), and Bolivia (Illimani and Huyna Potosi are just outside LaPaz). Considering its readily available in those countries to anyone who comes there to go climbing, is it considered OK?
I bought some in Bolivia, but didn't use it when on the mountains.

Interesting thing about LaPaz, Bolivia - there are so many Euro and North American tourists coming there to climb/hike/bike that the pharmacies practically know what you want when you walk in the door, and some even advertise on their shop windows that they have it in stock (in English & German, too!).

Lance Armstrong - His situation is somewhat odd to me. When he was winning all those TdFs, I wondered why he never participated in the other big summertime Euro bike races; the Vuelta (Spain) and the Giro (Italy). All the other top cyclists did, but Lance only did the TdF. Makes me wonder if he was using while training, then stopped with enough time for it to wash out of his system.

[Zé]

If there is nothing wrong with anything you consume then why not reveal all that you consume on your hikes? Come on, be honest, I mean, after all, you do state how much water you carry! Why not all that, (other stuff)?
and don't go saying something like, I never failed a drug test, like lance does, (according to zip) otherwize people will get suspicious. you don't want people gettin suspicious do you?
ok then. out with it then!

let's see...

coffee before a hike? happens maybe 5% of the time.

on the hike?

gummy bears
a sandwich


and don't carb load before. so I guess I should carb load and drink coffee before a hike to improve time...except that I'm not trying to improve hiking times (with few exceptions...still got that 3 hr iron mt goal).


here's a good paper on reviewing caffeine in sports performance

do I drink some coffee before an intense cardio session at the gym? sure do a lot of the times. who cares. i'm already training at very high %'s of VO2max...sure caffeine may allow me to sustain a few bpms more of heartrate, but considering how hard i'm already training I could care less if someone else thinks its 'cheating', lol.