SAR Idea

[Hikin_Jim]

So, just putting something out there to the RMRU folks: what if, at the bottom of each mission write up, you added a simple, perhaps separate statement that might help prevent a recurrence of that type of incident?

Some examples:
-Multiple liters of water are really vital in the summer.
-A topographic map might have prevented this from happening.
-Extra clothing would have really helped.

I think I may have even seen comments to this effect in some existing write ups. Perhaps putting a brief "tip" (time permitting and when appropriate) after the end of each write up might be of help?

Just a thought.

HJ

P.S. I personally read the write ups of any SAR incident I come across. While SAR incidents are noteworthy in and of themselves, I also read with an eye toward, "how might that incident have been precluded or ameliorated?"

[Jim Bakos]

Hey Jim:

Members try, when possible, to add a “lessons learned” section to the mission write-ups. The reason you don’t see it all the time is the difference in writing styles and an over all comfort in writing something for public consumption among our membership.

I will, however, pass your suggestion on to our Webmaster. He’s on most missions, and when he edits the write-up, perhaps he can add a “they did this right / they did this wrong” addendum to the column?

If you’ve checked our website lately (www.rmru.org) you’ll notice we have an advertisement for our pancake breakfast, coming up on August 17th, 2008. This is our major fundraiser for the year, and a heck of a lot of fun. And… A pretty good deal at “all you can eat for six bucks”. So make plans to come to Idyllwild in August and meet the team and enjoy a sumptuous home-cooked breakfast in the pines. Feel free to spam EVERYONE you know with this information, this is our first year selling tickets on-line, so we hope to cast a wider net…

--Jim

[Hikin_Jim]

Hey Jim:

Members try, when possible, to add a “lessons learned” section to the mission write-ups. The reason you don’t see it all the time is the difference in writing styles and an over all comfort in writing something for public consumption among our membership.

I will, however, pass your suggestion on to our Webmaster. He’s on most missions, and when he edits the write-up, perhaps he can add a “they did this right / they did this wrong” addendum to the column?

If you’ve checked our website lately (www.rmru.org) you’ll notice we have an advertisement for our pancake breakfast, coming up on August 17th, 2008. This is our major fundraiser for the year, and a heck of a lot of fun. And… A pretty good deal at “all you can eat for six bucks”. So make plans to come to Idyllwild in August and meet the team and enjoy a sumptuous home-cooked breakfast in the pines. Feel free to spam EVERYONE you know with this information, this is our first year selling tickets on-line, so we hope to cast a wider net…

--Jim

Hi, Jim,

Whatever works well for you guys; the last thing I want to do is add more "to do's" to your list. If you can, great. I appreciate the insights of others, particularly those in a position to spot common mistakes. I believe that's how they came up with the "10 essentials" originally; they drew from those people who had repeatedly been called in and were in a postion to know what was commonly, well, essential. I may have said it already, but I appreciate your team's straightforward, approachable write ups. Many teams post no write ups whatsoever.

Rick M recently wrote a post mentioning someone who was lost in snowy conditions to whom it never ocurred that he could simply turn around and follow his own foot prints back to his last known position. I think though, that had he (the lost person) been exposed to the idea before he was in a stressful situation, it might have come to mind. "Gee, I'm lost in the snow, what the heck do I do now? Hey! Wait a minute, I remember reading something about, what was it? Oh, yeah, I can retrace my own footprints!!" Perhaps the write ups could be looked at as "planting a seed," perhaps a seed that will one day blossom and give you guys a day off.

HJ

PS Aug 17 duly noted. Please post again every so often so it stays on the radar. I'll try to post it to some of the other local boards as well.

[FIGHT ON]

Sounds like a great idea to me BUT.
What if the person rescued intentionally does not bring what is needed for that hike? Intentionally being unprepared is the challenge for this person rescued. Tempting fate. Could not that info be looked upon as criticism? Aren't those that hike with this state of mind looked upon as some sort of noble someones to aspire to? What about them? What about their feelings?

[Hikin_Jim]

Sounds like a great idea to me BUT.
What if the person rescued intentionally does not bring what is needed for that hike? Intentionally being unprepared is the challenge for this person rescued. Tempting fate. Could not that info be looked upon as criticism? Aren't those that hike with this state of mind looked upon as some sort of noble someones to aspire to? What about them? What about their feelings?

For the person to whom the accident has already occured; it's a bit late to issue any helpful tips. Neither can this idea serve the person who deliberately courts danger. This idea would serve those who will be in the backcountry in the future that have the wisdom to prepare. Seldom can those who refuse to prepare be helped in advance.

The RMRU site handles things well and doesn't typically (if ever) come across as critical. Further, when lives are at risk, the reasons speaking up are altogether compelling.

[Jim Bakos]

I think what Jim (Hikin’) is trying to get to is what we call: Preventive Search and Rescue (PSAR). This is a very powerful tool for saving lives, but it won’t save you if you decide to climb Denali in shorts, tennis shoes only carrying a space blanket. You do have to put some thought in to the dangers you could ultimately face.

Also, on the other side of that coin, we don’t judge those that use our wilderness areas. When they’re in trouble we simply search for and rescue them. Our team is full of unique personalities, and on a personal level there can be disagreements about what constitutes a willful disregard for one’s safety – or downright negligence. But as a team, we pack those personal feelings away and do our jobs (24/7/365, in all weather, for free).

I talked to our Webmaster, Patrick, this morning. He thought Jim’s (Hikin’) idea was terrific, and hopefully we’ll be able to implement it on as many write-ups as possible. If it only helps ONE person from needing our services, it’s well worth the extra effort.

Kudos to you Jim! We’re all human, and can easily get wrapped up in all the other aspects of Mountain Rescue (you’d be surprised at how much there is to do!), we sometimes forget that the simplest things can do the most good. So to one and all: Feel free to critique, suggest, inquire and generally pester us if you feel there’s something we can add to your wilderness safety.

Hope to see plenty of you at our breakfast in August!!

Hike safe.

--Jim

[Hikin_Jim]

That's great, Jim.

Perhaps on some future mission, you'll meet a person who could've been in really bad shape but did OK because he or she was prepared and acted intelligently. We'll really know that we "got it right," when you ask him or her how they knew to do "that" (whatever it was that really pulled them through) and they say "I read about it on the RMRU site."

Though we might never know about it, better still would be those incidents that never even occur because of the RMRU site. Let us hope that day comes soon.

HJ

[Tim Le]

Hi Jim (SAR),

HJ's suggestions are good. It's nice to have an analysis of why an accident occured and what are the preventative measures, similar to NTSB reports of air accidents.

One other suggestion for your webmaster is to include a topo map and/or coordinates showing where the subject initially got lost and where he/she ended up when they were found. Some mission reports have this info but usually they don't. I think it's good info to know so that we can identify the exact trouble spots where people tend to get lost. Also, I often read the mission reports but don't know what area they are talking about. For example, I've been trying to find out the exact area where John Donovan was finally found from a few years back. Anyone know?

[Hikin_Jim]

Tim, there's a fairly good write up on the RMRU site. They list John's location as "Long Valley Canyon, below Hidden Fork." I assume they mean "Hidden Fork, below Long Valley Creek" since Long Valley Creek ends at Hidden Fork. If my assumption is correct, that would perhaps place John's position somewhere between markers "A" and "B" as shown on this map: http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=33.79604,-116.61382&z=15&t=T&marker0=33.79461%2C-116.60423%2C2.9%20mi%20NW%20of%20Agua%20Caliente%20Indian%20Reservation%20CA&marker1=33.79773%2C-116.61813%2C3.7%20mi%20NW%20of%20Agua%20Caliente%20Indian%20Reservation%20CA.

What you're asking for is really important: where do incidents tend to occur? The Donovan incident really is, correct me if I'm wrong RMRU members, a good example of the classic "terrain trap of the San Jacintos." People, when lost, often head east, perhaps because they see the lights of Palm Springs, but get into trouble as they attempt to descend the the rugged east side of the San Jacintos. They typically wind up in the Tahquitz Canyon drainage (of which Hidden and Longs are part) but also the Murray and Andreas Canyon drainages could also be terrain traps. This is something that I've picked up from the RMRU site over time and is exactly the kind of info I'm requesting in my first posting in this thread. Because of what I've learned on RMRU.org, I feel very confident that I would not try to follow the lights to the east were I lost in the San Jacinto's.

See full write up here: http://www.rmru.org/missions/2006/2006-06-04.html

Maps and such on the RMRU write ups would be very cool, but that's more work for the volunteers. However, if they're cool with it, that'd be great.

HJ

[Jim Bakos]

All:

We’re actually working on some mapping projects as we speak. I’ve taken the San Jacinto digital quad from the CalSiL (California Spatial Image Library – FREE topo’s!) server at UC Davis, so we can put it on the RMRU website. We plan to use it for mission write-ups, have it carved up in to 9 quadrants (with GPS data on the borders) so you can print your own maps at home for hikes in our area. And (though the rest of the team doesn’t know this yet) have some of our members write a “trail review/guide” for many of the most popular trails in our mountains and link it to the digital map.

This may be politically incorrect, but I also want to leave the old trails, unnamed trails and bodies of water on our map. To remove them may stop a few people from treading there, but if you run across a lake, and it’s NOT on the map, you can easily get very, very lost. I’m not sure if I’ll get away with this plan, but I’ll sure try – maps NEED to be accurate, this isn’t the cold war!

You can get free California topo’s here at the CalSiL server:

http://casil.ucdavis.edu/casil/maps/drg

You need to know quite a bit about mapping to use this free database. The databases are listed by the registration Lat/Lon (i.e. 33116 is the directory for the 7.5 minute quads in our area). The maps are also in Albers Conic projection, so you’ll need something like GlobalMapper to square the image (i.e. UTM). GlobalMapper is free for the low-functioning/print map only package. You need the .tif files. They are GeoTif’s and have all the spatial data imbedded in the .tif file.

As far as the places where folks get into the most trouble (North Face, East Canyons) I think I’ll just highlight the area and imbed text saying: “Beyond here lay Dragons!”…

Hike safe!

--Jim