Ellen's caffeine article

Non-outdoors topics. News, sports, hobbies, politics, humor.

Postby AlanK » Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:57 pm

zippetydude wrote:I think a lot of the preceding conversation is rather comical since nobody on earth cares if one of us is faster on a given ascent of Skyline after using caffeine...

I think that Ellen's article was interesting and useful and appreciated some of the comments that resulted. Even a simple statement by FIGHT ON of an opposing position is welcome in my view. Discussion is good and one-sided discussion is boring. However, when beating a dead horse took over, it was time for some attempts at comic relief. So, it you thought it was comical... well, great! :D
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Postby zippetydude » Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:13 pm

Yes, opposing points of view can make for interesting conversation. And adding a little humor (bluerail's post, or your post on USC) certainly doesn't hurt along the way. Besides, FIGHT ON can handle razzing, and he brings it back in a good-spirited way. Contrary to Kevin Marten's statement in a different thread, I don't believe this is a hater board.

So, any thoughts on the questions posed? (I was trying to pull the hi-jacked topic back towards Ellen's original topic of caffeine.)

z
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Postby AlanK » Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:10 pm

zippetydude wrote:Since caffeine has been shown to change performance levels, what was the reasoning behind allowing professionals to use it?

There are multiple lists of banned drugs because there are many governing bodies in sports. The WADA list in international and covers Olympic sports, so it is a good one to look at. As I recall, caffeine was not on the banned list many years ago (e.g., in pre-WADA days). It got added at some point (in doses larger than 1200 mg) and got taken off again in around 2003. A new ban was being considered more recently, but I believe it is still legal. The amounts that we talk about in discussions related to hiking are typically way below the limits connected with any bans. The problem with banning it is that it is so ubiquitous. the problem with not banning it is that it does help performance, at least in massive doses. I suspect that WADA would ban it but are not going to just to spite FIGHT ON.
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Postby FIGHT ON » Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:30 pm

zippetydude wrote:Since caffeine has been shown to change performance levels, what was the reasoning behind allowing professionals to use it?
Oh come on Zip, you can use the word improve instead of change. Be brave!
zippetydude wrote:I mean, I think a lot of the preceding conversation is rather comical since nobody on earth cares if one of us is faster on a given ascent of Skyline after using caffeine...
I only care if the person pretends that it has no effect on their time or performance. Not only on this trail but any trail or anything period! Who do you think yer kidding!? That's why the *
zippetydude wrote:...but if an athlete in, say, the Tour de France, were to win by the slimmest of margins and all other drug usage could be ruled out (har! har!) then caffeine could conceivably be implicated as an undeniable advantage if the winner used it. Hmmm.

You better be careful zip, any suggestion that the use of caffeine could possibly result either intentionally or unintentionally or be used for any advantage whatsoever will get you in Big trouble! Remember that! You can think it, but you can't say it! (maybe you can't think it either?) Better check!
zippetydude wrote:Another question: In marathons, ultras, or maybe even in a shorter race like a half-marathon, I've often wondered if caffeine intake for the second half would be more effective than caffeine taken throughout the duration of the race.

For me, the second half is where the perceived exertion moves into the "horrible pain" range. I've generally avoided caffeine at the beginning of races because I'm already jittery with excitement, but something halfway through might be worth considering. Any thoughts?

z

One thought is do you know this stuff is poison? It used to be banned and they are considering banning it again. But beside that, I mean it really doesn't matter if it is or not, I mean if all the drugs that are now banned were lifted would you use them? There are soo many bad things that it does to your body. Anybody drink caffeine regularly and have broken their teeth or bones lately?
Check around kid!

One article I found.

Caffeine in Sport

31 May 2005

First class athletes: they're at the top of their sports through training, perseverance and natural ability. Or are they?

"We have a couple of caffeine tables. I guess enough, equivalent to your body weight and we've been doing that all year." Matthew Pavlich, Docker’s forward

"In terms of the Wallabies and in terms of myself, I've used the No Doz from time to time." George Gregan, Wallabies captain.

Some high profile sports people have recently admitted to taking caffeine pills to boost their performance.

Performance enhancing drugs are banned in sports. And caffeine, even though it can boost performance, is permitted.

It's found in coffee plants, tea leaves, coco and Guarana plants. It's actually a poison the plants produce to kill any leaf eating bugs. Caffeine is found in stuff we drink and eat every day, like coffee, cola and sports drinks and chocolate.

So what's the big deal about sports people taking it? Well it does boost the body's performance. This is how.

Meet Ricki, she's been busy all day and she's exhausted. Her muscle cells are sending messages to her brain to tell her she's tired.

Ricki's brain cells are slowing down and she is feeling drowsy. The caffeine in cola blocks the tired messages getting to the brain. Instead of the brain cells slowing down, they actually speed up.

This tricks the brain into thinking the body is in danger, so it releases an awesome emergency hormone called adrenaline. As you can see, this gives the body strength, speed and energy to get out of trouble.

Breathing tubes open up so the body can get more oxygen, the body produces more sugar - the fuel that gives us energy, it makes the heart beat faster and the muscles tighten. The body is ready for action.

So clearly caffeine improves the body's performance.

But usually performance-enhancing drugs are banned in sport right? Well caffeine used to be. This guy was the first Australian to be expelled from the Olympic games for taking a performance-enhancing drug. The drug detected was caffeine. But early last year The World Anti-Doping Agency that tests athletes for drugs, decided to drop caffeine from its banned substance list.

And Australia's football codes also dropped it from their lists, because they couldn't accurately test for it.

Some drinks containing the drug carry warnings. So how much caffeine is too much? For example consuming three cans of cola, two chocolate bars and one coffee, will provide a hit of caffeine that could cause insomnia, anxiety or an upset stomach.

If someone takes way too much caffeine they can die from dehydration, which is when the body loses too much water.

After relaxing the rules on caffeine many officials are changing their minds. The World Anti-Doping Agency is now considering banning caffeine again and compulsory drug testing on professional athletes looks set to be introduced in the United States.

Some Aussie footy coaches aren't impressed with players who take caffeine and don't want fans to think it's ok to take performance enhancing drugs - even legal ones.

"Extremely disappointed and voiced that disappointment with a meeting with my players." Terry Wallace, Richmond Coach, AFL .

"This is, I suppose, bordering on cheating, if it's not on the list it's not cheating but it's bordering."
David Howman, Anti-Doping Agency Chief.
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Postby FIGHT ON » Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:57 pm

AlanK wrote:
zippetydude wrote:Since caffeine has been shown to change performance levels, what was the reasoning behind allowing professionals to use it?

There are multiple lists of banned drugs because there are many governing bodies in sports. The WADA list in international and covers Olympic sports, so it is a good one to look at. As I recall, caffeine was not on the banned list many years ago (e.g., in pre-WADA days). It got added at some point (in doses larger than 1200 mg) and got taken off again in around 2003. A new ban was being considered more recently, but I believe it is still legal. The amounts that we talk about in discussions related to hiking are typically way below the limits connected with any bans. The problem with banning it is that it is so ubiquitous. the problem with not banning it is that it does help performance, at least in massive doses. I suspect that WADA would ban it but are not going to just to spite FIGHT ON.
Oh yes! I've known this all along. :evil:
The sad part is that it does make a difference in times and performance.
an unfair advantage. it should be banned all together. Look how they are determined illegal.
it has to be two of these three. what a joke!


Prohibited substances

The rationale for determining whether or not a substance should be placed on the prohibited list is based on three criteria:

* potential to enhance sport performance
* actual or potential risk to health
* violation of the spirit of sport.

If two of these criteria are met, the substance is considered for inclusion on the prohibited list

http://www.australianprescriber.com/magazine/27/4/84/7/

So funny! Obviously the first one, And the second! and most important the third! The spirit of sport! bing bang bong!!! strike one, strike two strike three! yer outta there!
get outta dodge you caffeine outlaw!
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Postby KathyW » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:03 pm

I am frustrated with all the dead horse beating. I guess it just means I'll stay away from the chat section of this message board in the future and hope the crap stays out of the other sections.

Maybe I should be banned for my lack of patience or my sense of humor. Oh well.
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Postby zippetydude » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:51 pm

Hi Kathy! No need to ban yourself!

Besides, you're the only one on this board that I know of that goes out the PCT over at Whitewater. Who else can I get good recon from?

By the way, you know the river crossing about 2 miles north of the preserve? Well, last weekend I was too lazy to go for a long run, so I stopped at the crossing and hunted around. I found a big log about 100 feet from the crossing spot, so I rolled it and lifted it and almost got squashed by it (!) but it finally ended up as a decent bridge! If you go up that way soon, let me know if it's still there. It was fun and it gave me a good excuse to avoid the rest of my planned run! (Maybe I should have brought some caffeine!)

Anyway, I know the posts can get a little tedious at times, but I like your posts (I remember a recent one about a certain IP address being identical to another IP address!) and you do add to the board. By the way, did you notice the posting by Hiking Joe that he's saved over 1000 people already?! Truly a great humanitarian!

z
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Knock it off Alan.

Postby FIGHT ON » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:18 pm

zippetydude wrote:Hi Kathy! No need to ban yourself!

Besides, you're the only one on this board that I know of that goes out the PCT over at Whitewater. Who else can I get good recon from?

By the way, you know the river crossing about 2 miles north of the preserve? Well, last weekend I was too lazy to go for a long run, so I stopped at the crossing and hunted around. I found a big log about 100 feet from the crossing spot, so I rolled it and lifted it and almost got squashed by it (!) but it finally ended up as a decent bridge! If you go up that way soon, let me know if it's still there. It was fun and it gave me a good excuse to avoid the rest of my planned run! (Maybe I should have brought some caffeine!)

Anyway, I know the posts can get a little tedious at times, but I like your posts (I remember a recent one about a certain IP address being identical to another IP address!) and you do add to the board. By the way, did you notice the posting by Hiking Joe that he's saved over 1000 people already?! Truly a great humanitarian!

z

Ya Kath, I'm with Zip, I think Alank got the message about the horse beating! :D It can be annoying at times, He'll come around.
But!, now if Hal was in the mix, then I think you might have to take the topic stimulant. Fortunately he's too busy wandering around aimlessly, kicking cairns to be aware of our front page debate!
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Postby bluerail » Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:15 am

...I think Hal is busy teaching golf to short people.
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Postby FIGHT ON » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:23 am

Back to Caffeine.


Do you suffer from caffeine addiction? How do you know if caffeine is affecting your health and/or your moods and behavior? Stephen Cherniske, author of Caffeine Blues, developed a caffeine addiction quiz for his readers to help them evaluate their daily intake of caffeine and identify symptoms that caffeine could be causing in their bodies. Feel free to print the two-part questionnaire and use it to analyze your own reaction to caffeine.

http://www.teeccino.com/Quiz1.aspx
http://www.teeccino.com/Quiz2.aspx

Why does caffeine keep you awake?

Check this out! http://health.howstuffworks.com/caffeine-awake.htm
I didn't read this in the article and think it should have been included.
Pretty weird to see what actually goes on when you eat caffeine.

This part just freaks me out! :shock:
To a nerve cell, caffeine looks like adenosine. Caffeine, therefore, binds to the adenosine receptors. However, it doesn't slow down the cell's activity as adenosine would. The cells cannot sense adenosine anymore because caffeine is taking up all the receptors adenosine binds to. So instead of slowing down because of the adenosine level, the cells speed up. You can see that caffeine also causes the brain's blood vessels to constrict, because it blocks adenosine's ability to open them up.
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