Marmot PreCip Jacket is FAIL

[kevin trieu]

I think people have different opinions of the jacket because of the difference in expectations. Some expect the jacket to be 100% waterproof... for long periods of time. I don't think you can find jackets out there like that. Nothing's 100% waterproof AND has good breathability. Not the $100 or the $500 jacket. There's always that compromise. If you want 100% waterproof, get a $10 yellow raincoat. Also expect to be wet from your sweat.

Now for my experience, I only own two shell jackets: the Marmot Precip and the Acr'teryx Alpha SV. Both have worked well in short periods of heavy rain and extended periods of drizzling. The Precip I've used extensively in the Sierra for the three season. I've been more and more considering using it in the winter because it is light and you don't get rained on in the winter. The SV is a bombshelter designed for extreme use in varying conditions. I've used it in some of the major mountain ranges in the world inlcuding Alaska, Cascade and the Caucasus in bad weather.

I think you were asking about buying a tent before, just like that piece of equipment, consider what you are going to use it for. I think an I-Tent in Socal is still overkill.

[Rick Kent]

I actually use my PreCip mostly for winter use. In fact I used it on Denali at the lower elevations:

http://www.rickkent.net/ViewerPlus/view ... x?ID=96897

I tend to put it on over one or two fleece layers if it's snowing since the fleece tends to collect snow. All I need is a thin outer layer to shed the snow. For this purpose it works great. I was at first concerned it wouldn't be durable enough but my fears of ripping it with an ice axe haven't materialized.

[Hikin_Jim]

I think people have different opinions of the jacket because of the difference in expectations. Some expect the jacket to be 100% waterproof... for long periods of time. I don't think you can find jackets out there like that. Nothing's 100% waterproof AND has good breathability. Not the $100 or the $500 jacket. There's always that compromise. If you want 100% waterproof, get a $10 yellow raincoat. Also expect to be wet from your sweat.

Yeah, it's always a compromise. The more waterproof, the less breathable. The more breathable, the less waterproof. Really waterproof and really breathable? Sure, and I'll sell you some swampland in Florida right along with that.

Now for my experience, I only own two shell jackets: the Marmot Precip and the Acr'teryx Alpha SV. Both have worked well in short periods of heavy rain and extended periods of drizzling. (underline added)

That's my gripe. My PreCip couldn't handle an hour and a half's walk in a drizzle. Total fail for me. Sounds like I got a lemon -- but so did a whole lot of other people. The PreCip's quality control appears to be pretty darn sloppy. I wouldn't rely on a PreCip unless you've got one that you've already tried out and know that you have one of the PreCips that work. Many seem to work just fine, but you don't know whether you've got a lemon or a solid one until after you've purchased it.

I actually use my PreCip mostly for winter use. In fact I used it on Denali at the lower elevations.

Makes a lot of sense. The PreCip would prevent snow bonding to your fleece and would be a great wind block. In generally dry snow, I think even my PreCip would be fine. I don't think I'd use my PreCip in conditions where snow might turn to rain or where the snow would be really wet.

P.S. Nice pic of you and Aaron.

[Norris]

[quote="Hikin_Jim"]
Interesting thoughts about eVent. I've had my eye on the REI Shuksan eVent as a replacement, but I rejected the Shuksan since it lacks pit zips (which is normally a "no go" for me). Maybe I should reconsider, but I'm very hesitant to buy a jacket w/o pit zips.

I was also hesitant about eVent shells with no pit zips, but I am now a believer. My current favorite shell is a Salomon that I got on closeout sale at REI. I don't even notice it doesn't have pit zips. It is far less clammy than either my Marmot or Patagonia gore-tex ones.

[KathyW]

I've had better luck with a jacket made with the gore-tex packlite than I did with the precip jackets.

It is true that nothing is completely waterproof. One time I ended up floating on my thermarest in a bivy sack made of similar fabric as they make bibler tents out of. I did learn that the water resistant cover on my sleeping bag really is water resistant that night; so it wasn't as bad as it could have been.

[Hikin_Jim]

lol. What an embarrassment of riches. Do I get GoreTex or try this new fangled eVent? If I get GoreTex, do I go for the PacLite or the ProShell? I've also heard good things about Frogg Toggs although they clearly aren't very durable. Hmm.

Well, thank God that there are options.

I found this interesting chart (below). It shows that Marmot PreCip is half as waterproof as eVent. Interestingly, eVent is slightly more waterproof than GoreTex, but GoreTex is more breathable than eVent. It also shows two layer GoreTex as having the same breathability as three layer GoreTex. Unfortunately, the table doesn't include Patagonia's H2No or NorthFace's HyVent which would have been very interesting for comparative purposes. Maybe I can look them up somewhere.

Code: Select all

Examples of Waterproof Breathability Ratings for Major Manufacturers

Brand           Fabric              Waterproofness   Breathability
                                    (mm/24 hours)    (g/m2/24 hours)
Columbia        Omni-Tech® (Adults)   10,000           10,000
Columbia        Omni-Tech® (Kids)      6,000            6,000
eVent           eVent                 30,000           22,000
Gore-Tex®       PacLite®              28,000           15,000
Gore-Tex®       Pro-Shell 2-Layer     28,000           25,000
Gore-Tex®       Pro-Shell 3-Layer     28,000           25,000
Lowe Alpine     Triplepoint® 3-Layer  20,000           20,000
Marmot          MemBrain®             20,000           25,000
Marmot          PreCip®               15,000           12,000
Marmot          PreCip Plus®          25,000           15,000
Mtn Hardwear    Conduit               20,000           20,000
Sierra Designs  Hurricane              8,000            2,000
Sierra Designs  Microlight               600              N/A


[Cy Kaicener]

I havent seen any of this stuff in the thrift stores yet
Congratulations on 1000 posts Jim

[Hikin_Jim]

I havent seen any of this stuff in the thrift stores yet
Congratulations on 1000 posts Jim

Really? I hit 1,000. lol Apparently I like my own opinion or something like that.

A note on the chart I posted. Supposedly, from what I've been reading, the waterproofness numbers are comparable across manufacturers, but each manufacturer conducts their breathability tests differently, making cross manufacturer breathability comparisons generally useless. Breathability comparisons within a given manufacturer's product line are valid.

[Kevin]

If you take a men's XL, Mountain Gear's Deal of the Day for Saturday is one of OR's Paclite waterproof jackets. It's a good deal. They make good stuff.

[phydeux]

lol. What an embarrassment of riches. Do I get GoreTex or try this new fangled eVent? If I get GoreTex, do I go for the PacLite or the ProShell? I've also heard good things about Frogg Toggs although they clearly aren't very durable. Hmm.

Well, thank God that there are options.

I found this interesting chart (below). It shows that Marmot PreCip is half as waterproof as eVent. Interestingly, eVent is slightly more waterproof than GoreTex, but GoreTex is more breathable than eVent. It also shows two layer GoreTex as having the same breathability as three layer GoreTex. Unfortunately, the table doesn't include Patagonia's H2No or NorthFace's HyVent which would have been very interesting for comparative purposes. Maybe I can look them up somewhere.

Code: Select all

Examples of Waterproof Breathability Ratings for Major Manufacturers

Brand           Fabric              Waterproofness   Breathability
                                    (mm/24 hours)    (g/m2/24 hours)
Columbia        Omni-Tech® (Adults)   10,000           10,000
Columbia        Omni-Tech® (Kids)      6,000            6,000
eVent           eVent                 30,000           22,000
Gore-Tex®       PacLite®              28,000           15,000
Gore-Tex®       Pro-Shell 2-Layer     28,000           25,000
Gore-Tex®       Pro-Shell 3-Layer     28,000           25,000
Lowe Alpine     Triplepoint® 3-Layer  20,000           20,000
Marmot          MemBrain®             20,000           25,000
Marmot          PreCip®               15,000           12,000
Marmot          PreCip Plus®          25,000           15,000
Mtn Hardwear    Conduit               20,000           20,000
Sierra Designs  Hurricane              8,000            2,000
Sierra Designs  Microlight               600              N/A


Dude, you're "overthinking" this stuff!