Hiking trails at the top of the Palm Springs Tram

[Perry]

Funny! Don't worry z, with a little detective work you'll figure it out... We just don't want floods of people trampling the vegetation and contaminating the water.

Interesting point about the trail. Maybe the best action is to re-route the trail, but even if some of us disagree with the state park's decisions, that's irrelevant to the needs of this area because ecosystems don't care about politics. In other words, we still have individual responsibility regardless of whether we agree with authorities' decisions.

Ideally in a perfect world, I would love it if people posted pictures and talked about it in their trip reports, but the reality is that it would increase foot traffic significantly if this message board does become popular in the future. Whether it needs to be closed right now, I don't know, but I would not want the foot traffic to quadruple in two years as a result of this message board. I only show it to people who respect the environment and aren't going to go tell all their idiot friends about this place. When you think about the small watershed and short growing season, it is a very fragile area.

On another note, I've just been taking the state park's word and assuming that it needs to be protected from too many visitors. It would be nice to see ecological data such as changes in salinity and nitrate levels, populations of species, photos from the 70's, visitor counts, and things like that. I'm assuming the state park has done all that stuff. If they do close the area, then most likely they will have some data to justify that decision.

[marmot]

okay, so i know of two things that the rangers dont want us to know about already in the san jacinto wilderness:
*The Skyline Trail
*The Water Place

[zippetydude]

Marmot, your posting made me laugh.

You know when you're a kid, and you're not supposed to do something . . . that's always the thing calling to you, am I right?

Skyline down.

"Water Place" to go. I'm in the hunt.

Starting with Perry's 22 mile loop.

By the way, Perry, I may try part of it tomorrow morning. By the way, do you go from Saddle Junction directly to Willow Creek Crossing, or do you go out the PCT to Tahquitz Peak, Little Tahquitz Valley, and by way of Laws Camp on the way back? Is one nicer than the other? Also, are Tahquitz Peak and Caramba Overlook really amazing, every visit sorts of places, or are they kinda cool, but once is enough sorts of views?

Also, since I usually start around 4:00 or 5:00 a.m. (before first tram) I'll probably start from one of the trailheads off the 243. It'll probably add a couple thousand feet of elevation, but I find elevation keeps me humble. (read: it kicks my butt). Marion Mountain is really tough, and it always beats me up - but it looks like it's the shortest way up.

Incidentally, I may not do the whole thing the first time. Often, I use a method of "successive approximation". I go out a few miles, cache a few bottles of water or gatorade, and go home. The next time, I'll go out the other way and do the same thing. Third time, I've got water caches at 1/3 and 2/3 of the trail, so I can take or leave water sources along the way. Crisp, flowing source: yum. Slow, murky trickle: ew. Entirely dry: no problem. Make sense?

Wish me luck.

z

[cmachler]

Funny! Don't worry z, with a little detective work you'll figure it out... We just don't want floods of people trampling the vegetation and contaminating the water.

I think "a little detective work" is an overstatement. After literally a minute or two of research, I'm 99% sure I found the place.

[zippetydude]

By the way, I tried out part of the loop - Tram to San J, back down to Wellmans Divide, then across to the PCT and over to Saddle Junction, back by way of Skunk Cabbage Meadow. The meadow was amazing, and I loved the view of Suicide Rock (I think that's what it was.) Some of the best scenery I've come across - reminds me a lot of the Sierras. Also cached 5 liters of water along the way (so I enjoyed the cold fresh water at Willow Creek.)

All in all, a great trip in the wilderness. Thanks again for the tip. I'll try the other side of the loop next time.

z

[Perry]

Hey zippety, I haven't actually been to Tahquitz Peak or Caramba, but sometime this summer I'll check them out. Mostly they are just way out of the way from the Tram, but good views I've heard. I have always followed the Willow Creek Trail, but if you add on Laws and Tahquitz Valley, then it would be best to do the loop counterclockwise because you can make the decision when you've reached Saddle Junction. Otherwise if you're doing the loop clockwise then you've committed yourself to one hell of a journey.... Stashing water bottles is just going to make some idiots happy. People will steal your bottles, drink the water, and probably litter them somewhere you'll never find them. Look what happened to my pants!

[zippetydude]

No one steals my stash! I pick a place a few yards from the trail that's easily recognizable (my own secret water place!) and bury the bottles, or at least hide them. In fact, I've even told a few others about where they are in case they need emergency water. None have disappeared.

About those pants - I agree with you that if someone stole them, the person is an idiot. But don't be too sure - maybe they carried them back and turned them in at the ranger station. I've heard of lots of times where people did just that sort of thing.

I even lost my GPS over on San Gorgonio once, and the person who found it called me up, got my address, and shipped it to me at her own cost - refusing to let me send her anything, even just to cover postage. There are some great people out there.

Now, if you'll forgive me for my kidding about using your $50 for beer money, any decent person would have turned that in as well. Have you checked at the ranger station or tram lost and found? Maybe you're luckier than you know.

z[/quote]