New Skyline warning sign

[Florian]

New warning sign on Skyline trail above the picnic tables ..

[Florian]

Not sure i like the bring matches and a candle suggestion. Also the line "ROUTE DISAPPEARS 7 IS DIFFICULT TO FOLLOW" is funny. Forgot to shift the 7 to get an ampersand. Otherwise a good sign i think.

[Ed]

I agree with Florian about the matches and candle. And I did not see any mention of snow problems. I think 1-1/2 gallons of water is a bit much, though obviously it depends on the temperature. I started hiking Skyline carrying five quarts, but found I consistently drank 3-4, after drinking a quart on the drive to the trailhead.

[Wildhorse]

Good intentions, for sure. The sign might be more effective without so many shouting caps, without the long list and with fewer words. I am skeptical that the sign will prevent many mishaps. Such signs are often designed to maybe reduce litigation risk. That was probably not the intent here.

[zippetydude]

Yes, Ed, I agree.
Yes, Wildhorse, I agree.
BTW, each time I have done Skyline it has been 7000' elevation gain + 1000' elevation gain, for a total of just over 8000' elevation gain...just sayin'

z

[guest]

Funny how some trail signs come & go, (how many San Jac summit signs have we seen over the years??).
The wording is similar to what a few of us put together for the first "death sign".I picked that spot out, as I didn't want people to be able to see it from the bottom, and I figured people would have an idea at that point, how hard the trail is.

The elev. from that sign probably is close to 7k, since it's around 1,700 ft., (I think, don't carry gps or altmtr), but confusing about total gain of the route.
When the trails council, PSPD / mounted police & others chimed in about the wording), at first the state park didn't want anything to do with it, (since their land doesn't start till after 4k or more), but then realized they get calls as much as any for rescue, (Eric Hansen suggested the 12 essentials).
Back then, (20+yrs. ??), the route was just beginning to get more popular.

I agree that they should give at least as much warning about snow & ice, as they do about hydration & heat. Who wants to downclimb 7k on spent legs when you can almost see the tram through the glimmering on sun on ice!!
I also think less wording would be more effective. Hell, many people cruise by that sign in the dark.
Wonder if the Bighorn sign will re-appear?
Even the cool, old white lettering at 4,500ft., ("Palm Springs, 5 hours", I think it reads), got vandalized, then re-done.
scott

[Ed]

I think I liked the old sign, which I referred to as the 'Turn Back or Die!' sign, better. I thought it was well positioned. What happened to it, guest?

The main thing I don't like about this sign is the list, which seems similar to a 10 Essentials list. It can mislead inexperienced people to think that carrying the items on the list assures their safety. Everybody knows that hiking this trail in the winter is very different from hiking it in the summer, a point missed by this sign, except for the temperature range. The only certainties are the distance, the elevation gain, there is no water, and the route can be confusing in some places to people who are not familiar with it. I am sure that Zip will agree with me that the warnings about animal hazards are not worth the sign space. I worry about stepping on a rattlesnake in the dark, but frankly I've not seen one yet on this trail.

I don't like the signs painted on the rocks, neither of them. This one, despite my comments, has a professional look and makes some good points. Much better than nothing.

[guest]

No idea what happened to the old sign Ed, maybe in someones garage. I wonder about the many summit signs as well.
I wonder if PS SAR's put this new one in, anyone know, has their name on it?
For inexperienced hikers, it seems many consider their cell phone the only essential they need!

With all the floods & gnarly rains in the last few years, it may be gone, but there was a small sign, (might have been on a tree trunk), up at7-8k that said State Reserve, or Forest. It was only 6x8" maybe, old faded orange. Wonder what boundary that might have designated back then.
ss

[Plante]

So, just how easy is it to lose the trail for a first-timer? Would it be recommended to have an experienced guide on the first try?

[guest]

There's many short-cuts, alternative trails the first 1/2 of this climb, so going with someone, and having a guide, is a good idea.
There's also some areas higher up, in the trees that confuses folks, especially when your tired, short on oxygen & mental sharpness.
You also need to be in pretty dam good shape, (ie being able to go long & hard for hours).
There's a lot of folks hiking it on weekends now that the wx is good & no snow yet, so that's helpful, if you want to go that way.
ss