Permit

[hillbasher]

I would like to do a overnight hike starting at the top of the tram, going over Wellmans Divide down to Saddle junction, then up Willow Creek trail, spending the night somewhere near Willow Creek, then exit over Hidden Lake Divide and back to the tram. My question is about what permit I would need for spending the night at Willow Creek. Seeing how it is not in the state park, how can I get a permit from the PS side of the mountain? Want to do this tomorrow, so don't have time for mailing if that is even available. Any help would be appreciated.

[zippetydude]

It is my understanding at this point that permits are just a relic of a previous era. Not wanting to be a scofflaw, let me say that the best intel I have gotten has said that permits are optional. This may be true only for day permits, but If I am wrong, I can say that I have never been asked to prove I have a permit in the San Jacinto Wilderness, and I have hundreds of trips and thousands of miles under my belt in the past 20 years. Midweek is especially safe, with zero patrols if my info is right. I'm not against the idea of permits, that's not the point in my response...but you asked for a quick answer, so I would definitely just go and enjoy the wilderness and relax in the knowledge that the rangers are by and large really good people who, to my knowledge, have never harassed a hiker in the past 20 years. Take a deep breath of that fresh, pine scented alpine air, and no worries.

z

[guest]

Hi Hillbasher,
I believe that the state park & NF has a reciprocal agreement in this area re. day use permits, (if there still required, as Zip mentioned). But, overnight permits may be different. I'm sure the ranger station at bottom of tram can shed more light, where you'll get you hiking permit, at least.
I have been asks a few times, (mainly by park volunteers) for my day-use permit, but not for a couple years, (although I'm not on the trail as much as I'm off).
The "permits req. beyond this point" signs are still up around ranger sta. The chances of some park person wondering over by Willow Creek area is slim, as NF peeps would have to hike from Idy, (state park not as far, but you'd be camped off their land.
I'd ask rangers when you get your permit about wilderness camping, which I believe it allowed in some areas. If this is the case, you wouldn't need to go much farther on that loop to get back into state land again, (after Willow Cr).
Have a good time & enjoy the cool air!
ss

[cynthia23]

Off-topic (sorry) but speaking of 'cool air', I see that tomorrow night's LOW will be 93 degrees. !!! Guest you've been in this valley even longer than me I think, have the nightly lows ever been that high before? Seems to me that the avg. nightly low here is climbing up year by year.

[guest]

Hi Cynthia,
I was thinking that 93 seemed rather high for the 30 yrs. I've been here, but w/ 3+ wks of monsoon, & little wind to bring in much cooler, coastal air at night, it's here.
When living in Phx, I remember some nights like this, since there surrounded my desert & not mtns. w/ an ocean a 80 miles away.
Plus the fact that we've has little rain out of this, (except the one day where PS, the high desert & our locals mtns got hammered for a couple hours), and here we are in the middle of it.
So, I have seen a few nights similar, bur can't remember many that didn't get at least into the 80's, aarrgghhh!. Time to head into the mtns.
Stay cool, (like the older gentleman I saw in Ralph's the other day, in the stores elec cart, parked in front of the cooler, (for wine!), reading the paper!
scott

[zippetydude]

Hi Cynthia. I believe Scott is right - the humidity is what makes the heat stay through the night. I drove through Blythe a few years back just after midnight and it was still 100 degrees. I just kept on driving, thankful that I didn't live there! I much prefer the normally dry heat of this area.

z

[futbol]

It is my understanding at this point that permits are just a relic of a previous era. Not wanting to be a scofflaw, let me say that the best intel I have gotten has said that permits are optional. This may be true only for day permits, but If I am wrong, I can say that I have never been asked to prove I have a permit in the San Jacinto Wilderness, and I have hundreds of trips and thousands of miles under my belt in the past 20 years. Midweek is especially safe, with zero patrols if my info is right. I'm not against the idea of permits, that's not the point in my response...but you asked for a quick answer, so I would definitely just go and enjoy the wilderness and relax in the knowledge that the rangers are by and large really good people who, to my knowledge, have never harassed a hiker in the past 20 years. Take a deep breath of that fresh, pine scented alpine air, and no worries.

z

I was checked for a permit by a USFS ranger while day hiking up San Jacinto from Humber Park a year and a half ago (it was the day of the last solar eclipse). I had one for the 3 of us, which I obtained via downloading a PDF form and an email exchange with the federal station.

I also know someone who was previously turned around on this trail for not having a permit.

It sucks to have to get a permit, I know, but better to be prepared. BTW, it was free for the federal permit. I called the station and they said the state and federal agencies honor each other's permits.

[Ed]

This SBNF Volunteer Association webpage 'strongly recommends' wilderness permits, which suggests they have not been required for some time, consistent with other sources of information.

https://www.fsva.org/forest-information/

However, I talked to two State Park rangers last winter, around the tram station, and they certainly were unaware of any lifting of requirements, by anybody. So I concluded that SJSP and SBNS are not talking to one another.

[Ellen]

...So I concluded that SJSP and SBNS are not talking to one another.

Why am I not surprised?

Seriously though, we (Sally, Marilyn and bloody blonde) always try to self-permit when hiking in the San Gorgonio wilderness. Unfortunately, permits are often not put outside the Mill Creek Ranger Station mid-week.

Miles of smiles,
Ellen