C2C Oct/Nov - Skyline questions

[amongtheclouds]

Greeting all! I've been a lurker on here, but first time poster.

I am preparing to make an honest go at C2C soon. I've done as much prep work and homework as I can about the hike and Skyline specifically. Excellent level of fitness, experienced mountain hiker, very familiar with my food and water needs. As well as what's demanded for C2C 'on paper' for gear, supplies, and fitness. Right now my hiking partner and I (and possibly a few others who are equally 'matched' in fitness and hiking abilities) are just waiting for a good window this month. The PS start-temp suggestions you've mentioned have been a helpful consideration. Maybe we'll wait until the beginning of November if this heat doesn't dwindle soon enough. Start time sometime between 2AM and 3AM, move at a 2mph target pace - aim for being somewhere near Rescue #2 or even the cache/bucket by actual sunrise. That's the plan, we'll see well we can maintain that pace. We plan to approach this sensibly and responsibly, properly prepared in the case it takes longer and, aware of the turning-back situation. We're also planning for at least some of us to arrive earlier the prior day to do a quick recon day hike to the painted rocks and back. That's just a brief back story.

But, I do have three questions about the route even after doing all my homework:

1. What is the quality of the 'Skyline proper' route/trail for route finding in generL? I've heard of side-trails, errant shortcuts, and the possibility of being turned around. Though I've heard the turned around part regarding the Museum to Picnic Tables. We'll probably start at Ramon, but Museum is still an option. The fact I can see the trail crystal-clearly from Google satellite is a good sign though. But at ground-level: for someone whose done Baldy's Register Ridge multiple times (both directions), the ridge scramble/use trail from Sugarloaf to Ontario peaks, the Joshua Tree 49 Palms Oasis Trail, and is fully comfortable with route-finding on those 3... would the quality of Skyline route-finding be comparable to those?

2. Does anyone know the trail condition's Sept/Oct 2014 after that flash food which hit PS few weeks back? Any section washed out or requiring extra consideration? I'm guessing that with the heat, there haven't been hikers many out there - so I don't known if there's any recent conclusive reports of "I've done Skyline after the floods and it's all fine". I'd love to know.

3. Piggy-backing on that: if you had to name only one section of Skyline which is particularly difficult to negotiate right now, what would it be? By 'difficult', I only refer to: trail quality/route-finding, environmental hazards/re-routes (i.e. something fell or washed out part of the route), ill-placed or missing cairns/waypoints which might not be there anymore. Basically, the kind of stuff which doesn't relate to weather/climate, but the condition of route itself.

Maybe this is all a bit over-thinking it. Though, we do plan to approach this as soundly and realistically as possible. And as such, these honest questions come to mind to ensure we've done our due diligence a full 360 degrees.

Thanks for your patience!

[bluerail]

Trails fine, nothing washed out.

[amongtheclouds]

Great, good to know. It sounds that the other two questions must answer themselves already. Sounds straightforward enough. Thanks!

[bluerail]

Ramon th is less confusing in the dark i suppose.But If you start at museum th you just want to keep following a worn path upward, they all end up at the main trail before it gets to the tables.

Same thing with the rest of (Skyline) other than the turn to go south to ramon road, every trail below the upper tram station, leads to the upper tram station. the only difference is distance and incline. trail is very worn and easy to follow.

there will most likely be others on the trail.

from tram to peak is straightforward

[Sally]

Hi amongtheclouds, There is no such thing as "overthinking" your 1st Skyline. It sounds like you are on the right track to success. Now it's just a matter of waiting for the right day weather-wise. Have fun! See you at the board get-together if it happens?

[Ed]

As has been pointed out by the experts, it is difficult to lose 'the trail(s)' completely. But you can waste quite a bit of time stumbling around in the dark. More experienced people may disagree, and I certainly respect their opinions, but I've settled on a start time around 1-1/2 hours before sunrise for the Skyline (not the C2C, which I've never done). Since 'civil twilight' starts 24 minutes before sunrise, that gives you only a little over one hour in the dark. The low for the night tends to be around then (see the graphs on WunderGround), and even at my slow pace, the cooling-with-ascent and heating-with-time effects offset one another not exactly but well enough. I have not yet had problems with heat, other than being warm and sweaty, with the Palm Springs low up to 68F and the high up to 95F. Cross my fingers. The most important thing is to know that you can do the gain to the tram, which seems to be the case with you.

[amongtheclouds]

Thanks so much for the details and encouragement, everyone. It's greatly appreciated! Very excited to go for it.

Baldy and Wilson have been my usual training course every few weeks for months now among other mountains near me, sad the Bear Canyon trail got closed from the August rain - really liked that route. I solo'd San G on Vivian Creek a month ago and felt great on that. That hike really offered me a first up-close glimpse of San J/Skyline ridge and what to prepare for mentally (C2Cs been on my mind for quite a while).

Also thanks for the reminder about the junction bluerail, I do recall catching that.

Sally, when/where is the get together? I noticed that post about a 2014 get together, but didn't see conclusive details in there. Would love to drop through if our C2C date aligns. We're heading in from the Glendale/SFV area, so this trip is a 'one-off' due to distance. Doesn't mean the only time though, just few and far between.

[63ChevyII]

Personally, I prefer starting at Ramon Road - the trail is easier to follow and the incline is much gentler to start the hike. If you start at Ramon Road, turn left at the big cairn in the middle of the trail. I've posted some info on my blog if you want to read more about the hike. I am hoping to do C2C again in late October of early November, but haven't been able to train much lately.

http://www.hikinggeek.com/2014/01/01/skyline-trail/
The 'quiz' is a bit annoying, but hopefully people understand why it's there.

[cynthia23]

I would agree that to avoid confusion, take the Ramon road branch. Desert Museum is a mess and exceptionally confusing. I would also agree that--provided it is a moderately cool day--it's better to start closer to dawn, as opposed to 2 or 3 a.m, so as to minimize confusion in the dark. It's also much pleasanter that way, and, although snakes this time of year are uncommon, by traveling during the light you minimize the risk of stumbling over one in the dark (they do like to lie on the trail in the dark.)

You sound extremely well prepared and I doubt you will have problems, so long as your hiking partners are equally well-conditioned.

[amongtheclouds]

Really dig that trail map and the step by step, 63ChevyII. Those pacing times are extremely helpful. It compliments everything I've read and researched about the route but filled in a few gaps. Very comprehensive map compared to a SoCal Hiker one I found. I'll be toting this one along with a good topo. Skyline doesn't seem all that bad to me from a mental-prep angle by looking at the mileage splits.

Yeah cynthia23, I'll be heading over the day prior to recon a bit in daylight on both TH. If the Museum just seems too sketchy for my liking, we may very well start at Ramon. I don't doubt that we'll get to Skyline from Museum - but not sure I want us wasting time getting flipped around a bunch in the first mile when we could better use it elsewhere. Thanks about the snakes and night. I'll have my trusty BD Storm headlamp in tote. And I've read up about what "creatures" to expect. I sense that due to this we may very well just take our time and conserve energy in the dark to at least gain the ridge above 4,300 and then start booking it hard when we get first light - if getting to Rescue #2-ish by sunrise is a bit too ambitious.