C2C Topo Map Question

[mattytreks]

Does anyone know if the complete C2C route is covered in the Garmin "MapSource US TOPO 24K, National Parks, West"? According to the Garmin website the entire San Bernardino National Forest is covered...but is the entire C2C hike in the SBNF??

MapSource US TOPO 24K, National Parks, Wes
http://www.garmin.com/cartography/mapSource/topo24knp.jsp
MapSource United States TOPO
http://www.garmin.com/cartography/mapSource/topo.jsp

I would just prefer the greater detail of the 1:24,000 scale than the standard 1:100,000 scale in the Garmin "MapSource United States TOPO".

If you are offering any suggestions and/or alternatives, the GPS unit I will be using is the Garmin GPSMAP 60CSx.

Thanks again!

[AlanK]

The entire C2C hike is definitely not in the SBNF.

I would be happy to e-mail a GPS trace of the C2C route if you send me a provate message with your e-mail address.

[magikwalt]

You can preview the Palm Springs area on the Garmin website to see the detail included in their product. The topo for the area covered by the C2C is on the map but the trail itself is not. In comparing the Garmin product to the National Geographic California Topo I like the easy of use with Garmin's Map Source but prefer the detail provided by NG California. For instance the Garmin maps show the Tram Towers labeled as "Tower" but not the actual buildings or even a line representing the tram itself.

If you're using Garmin's GPS then the easy of use obviously goes to Map Source.

[guest]

Hi, It would be nice to just enjoy some of these trails & not publish the heck out of some.
This trail is not officially reconized by the agencies, and those of us that have hiked it for the past 20 yrs. perfer it that way.
Spray paint all the way up, trash, camping gear, lost & ill-perpared hiers have become more common on theis route.
Sure, we like to make things safer, but sometimes wilderness is & should be just that.

Thanks for reading,

ss

[cynthia23]

I agree with Guest. The recent bright orange trail markers are really horrifying. There is a point where making the wilderness so "easy" really misses the point of the wilderness experience. Heck, why not just pave a path with handrails all the way to the top? Which is not to say that GPS, etc is not a useful tool, but part of the fun of Skyline is that is truly is "off the beaten track". (although I admit, an espresso cart at Flat Rock would be much appreciated. Perhaps we could helicopter one in?) But still, let's not take all the "wild" out of wilderness ...just my three cents ...

[AlanK]

I agree that no one should be painting orange trail markers, leaving propane torches or semi-permanent campsites. I also see no reason to make Skyline a fully-approved, well-groomed trail. But everything about this Message Board is encouraging more people to do Skyline. There is plenty of room for debate about whether or not this is a good thing. But I see no reason to single out people who request GPS waypoints as being part of any problem.

The guy who started this thread wanted a trail map to plan his C2C hike. I was happy to help him by sending a trace that he could use with a map program. I don't see him as more or less worthy than someone who does not use a GPS. Is he getting less of a wilderness experience than someone who does not use GPS? I don't see it as being up to me to decide that.

I will add one positive note: In my experience, people who ask for GPS tracks are doing more, not less, planning of their hikes than average and are less likely to be lost or ill-prepared.

[mattytreks]

Hi Alan, thanks for bringing this Thread back ON TOPIC. I am a very detail-oriented kind of person and just like to collect as much data as possible before doing anything in life; not just hiking. I find the Topo maps very interesting and I love going back home after a big hike and analyzing all of the GPS/Topo Data.

Guest/cynthia23- Please feel free to start another thread if you prefer to talk about the pro's and con's of using GPS and the and how "orange dots" along the trail make it less appealing. Hopefully people who post in your thread do not go off-topic as well.

[magikwalt]

For me the great thing about GPS is the freedom it gives to hike the wilderness. I collect trails/waypoints, store them within my 60CSX and find they allow me to make enroute changes to "go see" whats on the otherside of a ridge line or valley. While the Palm Springs 120 Hike book is a great start I enjoy taking a scenic reroute from one trail to a completely disconnected trail.

Seems there is a little trail (some bushwacking involved) up the left ridgeline of Snow Creek that allows you to pop out just north of the tram. If the Skyline trail ever gets too busy there are plenty of no painted path alternatives.

Since I hate the gully climb out at Coffmans Craig is there anyone familiar with an alternative? It looks as though you would start left before the traverses.

[cynthia23]

Oh Heavens, Magikwalt, don't turn left!!! Whatever you do, do not turn left!! The chutes there are all technical and many a weary Skyline hiker who wanted to take a "shortcut" to the top has gotten stuck in them. There have been a number of rescues in the next-door chute. Coffman's Crag's gully may be wearisome, but it's better than the alternative ...

re: GPS, et al--I don't believe either Guest or I are anti-GPS per se, but it does concern me (I can't speak for Guest) to see the increasing wear and tear on the Skyline trail which inevitably comes with "putting it on the map", so to speak. Part of what keeps the more inexperienced hikers off is precisely the lack of accurate mapping. It is not that we are like some band of surf locals who want to keep others off "our" beach (so to speak!), just that with increasing publicity, mapping, etc. there are inevitably many more problems such as inexperienced hikers getting into trouble, the orange graffiti/markers, etc. I do know speaking for myself that the lack of a clear map definitely kept my original forays on Skyline very conservative and partial. Also, the lack of mapping also encourages a "buddy system" in which inexperienced hikers strive to partner up with experienced hikers who know the trail (that is what I did.) That has a very beneficial side effect of preventing many rescues which I think might otherwise occur. I do not believe we are going off topic by bringing up overall concerns with the whole concept of "mapping" SKyline. But be assured that some of my best friends own that newfangled GPS device ....

[AlanK]

I agree that the Skyline trail has gotten increasing publicity over the past few years. That increasing publicity has led to more and more hikers on the trail, Whether you think this trend is good or bad, this message board has got to be a prime source of new interest in the trail.

When I hiked C2C for the first time in 2002, I was able to find both maps and GPS waypoints after about 5 minutes worth of effort using whatever was the poplar search engine of the day. C2C is also described in detail in several hiking books and has received attention in national magazines. Given the relative abundance of information available out there, I simply do not believe that individual requests on message boards for GPS waypoints have contributed as much as 1% of the new C2C hikers in recent years.