Urgent!Palm Springs trails / Skyline threatened by land swap

[bluerail]

http://www.deserthiker.typepad.com/

November 3rd 2010 at 6 pm
Council Chambers City Hall
3200 East Tahquitz Canyon Way, Palm Springs


Stop the Exchange

[pete]

i'll wear my tahquitz creek yacht club shirt. there's some relevancy. we hope to make the tahquitz river wash a trail connecting to the valley's bike path and trail system.

[pete]

my thanks to all who spoke at the palm springs city council meeting tonight. to a person, you were articulate and passionate. how could the city council members not be impressed? they are charged with protecting and enhancing the city. you made it apparent to not take a stand with us would be negligent. anxious to hear what they're going to do.

[guest]

Hi hiking buds,

I just spoke with a friend who knows a lot about these issues, has been involved with them for many years.
She feels that the proposed exchange may not be a bad deal, if we get section 36 removed, which has the highest concentration of trails & easiest access.
The section where Skyline is located that the tribe would recieve doesn't even start until approx. 700-1k ft. There would be little motivation for the tribe to police an area that high up, in her opinion.
Also, a couple sections we would obtain are very good areas to visit, albiet a ways to travel, including Fern Cyn, Dty Wash and surrounding land.

So, if we were the have Section 36 removed, and have anaagreement that the tribe would not restrict access to Skyline, it may not be such a bad exchange, especially if we could receive more land in good spots to make it more equal.

This is new info that I'm still digesting, but the land I perviously thought was a long way up in the Santa Rosa's, is only a couple miles from Wildhorse, Thielman & Garstin trails.

Section 36 is apparantely surrounded mostly by private lands, so it doesn;t appear to make a lot of sense for the tribes idea of a more contiguous boundary.

Just some more ideas on the best way to handle this.

[zippetydude]

The section where Skyline is located that the tribe would recieve doesn't even start until approx. 700-1k ft. There would be little motivation for the tribe to police an area that high up, in her opinion.

What!? The first time there's a rescue, there's going to be very good reason. Remember, once it's private property, the property owner maybe held liable for damages even if they've done absolutely nothing wrong...the tribe would ultimately have to protect themselves from such litigation. So long Skyline.

And they may choose to do so for other reasons anyway. Why have a few people on this board done Skyline over 100 times? Over 200? Because they can start when they want, and it doesn't cost them every time they set foot on the trail. Indian Canyons is beautiful, but who goes and does that every weekend? It costs money (I know, it's just $8.00 or something like that, but multiply that by 200 and it turns into serious money) and it's highly restricted with regard to time. That's property that belongs to the tribe, so it's their right to govern it as they see fit. We should keep BLM land as our own public land (where members of the tribe are invited to go for free anytime they like!) rather than ruin a good situation.

Also, a couple sections we would obtain are very good areas to visit, albiet a ways to travel, including Fern Cyn, Dty Wash and surrounding land.

Too far to travel for most of us. And, speaking quite plainly, if we want to go visit those areas, I doubt they're fanatical like the DWA about people enjoying the outdoors in the middle of the desert, so in effect we probably already have access to those areas if we really want to go. I'll never go, but if someone wants to, they could always just go, or contact the tribe and ask permission. Without a land swap. Without losing access or having to pay every time we hit the trail.

Stop the Swap!

z

[drndr]

Completely agree with Zip. Better status quo than take a chance of having another piece of public land given away, over regulated, or over permitted.

[guest]

First off Zip, the Skyline route begins on the Museum trail as you know, .which IS private land. I know the kind couple who has allowed you & I many thousands to hike over their land for years, (liability & all that you speak of). Or, one can use Ramon Rd. / (the south end of the north Lykken tr. ) which also may be private land.

Some park in the Museum lot, which is private, (to my knowledge), or at least walk across their property. Besides, it's rather difficult to hold a sovereign nation liable in most cases.

I agree that the more public land we can maintain, the better off we'll be, even if the amount of rescues in the last few years lands up requiring some type of permit, restriction, or whatever, (as many agencies have talked of).

Looking at the map, the Skyline crosses over tribal land higher up, possibly more than once, as well as other private land.

The Indian Canyons offers an annual pass for about $75. I realize the fee structure is not popular with many used to public lands, (although there are fees for many of these too), but in this case, I feel it's managed well, considering how clean it remains, the removal of non native vegetation, the restriction of dogs due to the impact on wildlife, the clean restrooms, free ranger lead tours, continual upkeep of the trails & other facilities. They also are first responders locating / rescuing hundreds of people, without charge over the years.

I may not agree with everything the tribe does with their land, but I feel they do a pretty good job of managing this fragile area, as I've seen what can happen over the last 25 years without it this level of management. Of course I don't want them to have the opportunity to possibly restrict any access if this deal goes through, and feel many of our concerns may be warranted.

I still believe the proposed swap is lopsided, and possibly motivated by interests not revealed, but if a compromise is required, we need to consider the best options.

I'm not disagreeing with you and many on the board & others involved, just throwing other thoughts out there.

I would love to see Skyline remain as it is, it's a route I've cherished for over 20 years, (and over 200 times).

ss

[magikwalt]

The land swap is only motivated by one party. We The People have no need for this swap and so it follows that we should not be getting the short end of the deal.

I am not anti-Tribe. I value the cultural and economic force they bring to our valley. But this is not a equitable swap. It is not in the public's best interest and therefore should not be supported by the BLM.

[Ellen]

Howdy All,

I agree with Gunny Walt.

I have sent letters via USPS to John Kalish and copied:

Ken Salazar, Secretary of the Interior
Department of the Interior
1849 C Street, N.W.
Washington DC 20240

Bob Abbey, BLM Director
Department of the Interior
1849 C. Street. N.W.
Washington DC 20240

Jim Abbott, Acting State Director
BLM Jurisdiction
2800 Cottage Way, Ste W-1834
Sacramento, CA 95825

In my letter to Kalish, I noted that I had sent him a electronic letter via the internet and had not received a response.

Stop the Swap!

Miles of smiles,
Ellen

[cynthia23]

i'm also posting this in the Palm Springs Council thread ...

I attended the PS City Council meeting last night. It was awful. I'm sorry to say the hoped-for change of heart didn't manifest; they're simply going to send a letter saying they will support the inclusion of 36 and 16 if hiker's access is assured. Since the proposal only says that the tribe has to keep access for a year, this is hardly a triumph. I actually spoke to Ginny Foat last night and she told me bluntly that the tribe is very upset about all us and very upset with the PS city council when they suggested removing parcels 36 and 16. They actually called the PS city council up and made them all come to a meeting. (Foat said something to the effect of 'they had been called to the woodshed") It tells you something about who really calls the shots in Palm Springs; the city council rushed to the meeting and then rewrote their letter. Could you and I get such a hearing and such immediate deference? Anyway, it became very apparent in the conversation with Foat that the city council is extremely anxious to kick the can down the road and get the tribe off their back; Foat kept urging us to contact Bono-Mack. In other words, nobody wants the hot potato. Let somebody else confront the Mob/Oops-I-Meant-the-Tribe.

And speaking of the Mob. Last night I started really thinking about this less from a hiking point of view and more from an Elliot Ness point of view. If Parcel 36 ALONE is valued at 80 million dollars, what do you think the total value of this exchange is? Granted, probably only 36 is directly developable. but Ken (Wildhorse) also thinks part of the reasoning is the Tribe may want to gain some protected habitat so they can 'trade it off' and develop other properties they already own--in Chino Canyon for instance. Or they may simply leverage this land for cash--i.e. borrow against it. The rumor is that the recession has hit the casinos and I'm guessing that like everyone they overbuilt (they sank huge bucks into the Rancho Mirage casino.) Who knows, but the bottom line is, there is at LEAST two hundred million dollars at stake here. It's enormously naive for us to think they are going to respond to pleas from locals. There is no way in hell they are going to give up 200 million bucks; remember there's only a few hundred of them, so for each of them that's at least a million they're adding to their net worth. People do not walk away from money like this, they're going to fight to the freaking death. It's no use asking quietly or privately or being nice or any of those things. Asking someone to give up two hundred million dollars does not work.

What does work? WAR. WE MUST GET NASTY. This will be hard for most of us to do because we're nice middle-class people who enjoy solitary jaunts in the wilderness. Aside from a few online tiffs, I'm guessing few of us enjoy confronting others and making enemies. But that's what we're going to have to do. We will have to piss people off. The tribe, obviously; but also the Palm Springs City Council; Bono-Mack; the Desert Sun, and anybody else who is ON THE SIDE OF THE ENEMY!!

We can't be afraid to confront people and say rude, offensive things. Here's some suggestions: flood the Desert Sun with letters scoffing at the recent cruditorial; flood the Mayor and City Council with angry emails denouncing their cave-in to the Mob/Tribe (Trob?), and let's start CALLING Bono-Mack (202-225-5330) and Barbara Boxer (951-684-4849) Demand a House or Senate investigation of John Kalish's overly close relationship to tribal members and possible financial improprieties in this huge giveaway of over 200 million in public lands to a few hundred millionaires. Demand an independent appraisal. Demand public hearings. We're talking about 200 million dollars for God's sake! If Parcel 36 were to be developed (and of course, I'm totally against that), but if it were, wouldn't it be better for the money to go into paying for schools and hospitals, rather than into the bank accounts of people who already have them stuffed like hogs? What I'm saying is, we shouldn't just be concerned about this as hikers and environmentalists; we should also be concerned as citizens. This truly is wrong, wrong, wrong ...

I am thinking that the time is coming when we need to do direct action. Letter writing is very important, but there is a time to actually demonstrate in a loud and aggressive and in your face way. I think that time might be coming. I have in mind demonstrations in front of the BLM and tribal offices, and I also have in mind some kind of 'hike-in'. Throw out your ideas and availability for direct actions, people.

I'm going to a meeting of the Desert Trails coalition next week, and will report whatever I learn .... meanwhile, let's all ..... FIGHT ON!!!