Clarifying the trail at the peak

[FIGHT ON]

I admit to a bit of whimsy on that one -- phydeux certainly got it.

It does look like something is buried in there, though.

BAAAHHAHAHA NOW I GET IT! NOT FUNNY ALANK!

[FIGHT ON]

Maybe this might provoke "Dwight" to kick me again.
My dad showed me my first duck back in the fifties. Apparently they used them when teenagers constructing trails back in the CCCs of the thirties and they possibly got that from others that had gone before them. Simply a large rock with a smaller one on top with a protrusion on it pointing the way (looks like a duck). Over the years since I've seen a few more but not too many anymore (maybe those have been knocked down?). In my teens when I saw them I would wonder about the person/circumstances connected with it and wonder if my dad might have even made it 70+ years ago. That was in the pre-GPS days and most didn't have access to the USGS topos that we can now hit the print button and have one for wherever we go.

I've built less than a dozen or so in my life and usually to mark a tricky spot for my return and have usually dismantled them on the return. I have also "rebuilt or fixed" some that were in need of repair (back in the 70-80s but not recently except on some barren lava flows on Hawaii where the official trail is now marked with lava cairns where recent flows have covered the normal trail. In the fading light one year, following these helped me stay off the fresh jagged aa lava and stay on the trail. Some were piles 3 feet high and easy to spot sticking up on the horizon. Without these I can only imagine the number of hikers getting off the trail such as it was and cutting their hands and knees falling on the aa flows not to mention the fact that you would then have countless tracks all over the place and many SAR missions.

I got disoriented coming off the top of Jacinto once and perhaps if I didn't have the skills and experience that I have might have become another SAR incident. People hear about the trail to the peak and expect to be able to get there with a reasonable amount of safety without being a Jedidiah Smith. As an employee at REI for several years I saw many different types coming in the store for stuff to enable them to get a mountain experience. Some with lots of money able to buy every latest thing to those that found sticker shock on everything we sold and I would give them ideas and suggestions to help them have a "safe" but enjoyable experience.

I think the trail up to Jacinto needs to be such that a person coming up the tram with the intent to hike up to the peak "using the trail" should be able to do that. I remember when this thing about take only pictures and leave only footprints came out. I was a radical environmentalist at the time and thought about all the places I'd been to where even leaving footprints degraded the area. I have to say that the top of Jacinto is not one of these places and path should be constructed such that a beginner could follow to the peak from the hut and back. Those who disagree might want to consider joining a SAR team to save lives by helping look for those that get lost.

Bingo! Well said. I agree. Wish I said it. Where the hell have YOU been? Hey Hal, you know what you can do with those ducks you kick eh? Why don't ya do a couple sar missions instead of just thinking about your selfish self? Find some of the people you cause to get lost. And then maybe someone will come look for you when you get lost. HELLO? EARTH TO HAL. COME IN HAL.

[halhiker]

Maybe this might provoke "Dwight" to kick me again.
My dad showed me my first duck back in the fifties. Apparently they used them when teenagers constructing trails back in the CCCs of the thirties and they possibly got that from others that had gone before them. Simply a large rock with a smaller one on top with a protrusion on it pointing the way (looks like a duck). Over the years since I've seen a few more but not too many anymore (maybe those have been knocked down?). In my teens when I saw them I would wonder about the person/circumstances connected with it and wonder if my dad might have even made it 70+ years ago. That was in the pre-GPS days and most didn't have access to the USGS topos that we can now hit the print button and have one for wherever we go.

I've built less than a dozen or so in my life and usually to mark a tricky spot for my return and have usually dismantled them on the return. I have also "rebuilt or fixed" some that were in need of repair (back in the 70-80s but not recently except on some barren lava flows on Hawaii where the official trail is now marked with lava cairns where recent flows have covered the normal trail. In the fading light one year, following these helped me stay off the fresh jagged aa lava and stay on the trail. Some were piles 3 feet high and easy to spot sticking up on the horizon. Without these I can only imagine the number of hikers getting off the trail such as it was and cutting their hands and knees falling on the aa flows not to mention the fact that you would then have countless tracks all over the place and many SAR missions.

I got disoriented coming off the top of Jacinto once and perhaps if I didn't have the skills and experience that I have might have become another SAR incident. People hear about the trail to the peak and expect to be able to get there with a reasonable amount of safety without being a Jedidiah Smith. As an employee at REI for several years I saw many different types coming in the store for stuff to enable them to get a mountain experience. Some with lots of money able to buy every latest thing to those that found sticker shock on everything we sold and I would give them ideas and suggestions to help them have a "safe" but enjoyable experience.

I think the trail up to Jacinto needs to be such that a person coming up the tram with the intent to hike up to the peak "using the trail" should be able to do that. I remember when this thing about take only pictures and leave only footprints came out. I was a radical environmentalist at the time and thought about all the places I'd been to where even leaving footprints degraded the area. I have to say that the top of Jacinto is not one of these places and path should be constructed such that a beginner could follow to the peak from the hut and back. Those who disagree might want to consider joining a SAR team to save lives by helping look for those that get lost.

Bingo! Well said. I agree. Wish I said it. Where the hell have YOU been? Hey Hal, you know what you can do with those ducks you kick eh? Why don't ya do a couple sar missions instead of just thinking about your selfish self? Find some of the people you cause to get lost. And then maybe someone will come look for you when you get lost. HELLO? EARTH TO HAL. COME IN HAL.

This thread lost my interest days ago. But since you woke me.

Don't worry about me getting lost. Won't happen. Besides, my motto is "You can never be lost when you're on an adventure".

People don't get lost because there wasn't a duck on a trail. They get lost because they don't know what they're doing, or because they panic or because they get injured or.....

In fact, they probably get lost because they are following some nimrod's ducks and not using proper navigation tools. A map and compass (or GPS) are navigation tools, not a bunch of rocks.

Don't think you'd want me on a SAR team. I'd probably leave you out there to follow some other lost soul's misplaced ducks until you perish....and then bury your body in one of those Texas grave mounds.

[FIGHT ON]

Don't think you'd want me on a SAR team. I'd probably leave you out there to follow some other lost soul's misplaced ducks until you perish....and then bury your body in one of those Texas grave mounds.

That's pretty messed up dude! Leave somebody out there huh? Pretty sick. If I had the opportunity I would help anybody, including you.

[zippetydude]

Good post FIGHT ON. As we say in the south, your momma raised you right. We gotta meet on the trail one of these days. You planning on doing Skyline this fall?

By the way, I'm a USC fan, but I wasn't at the game. I was at a friend's house. Unfortunately, he is from Texas, and all the way through the game, I heard the constant, "Yeah! Hook 'em Horns!" refrain. It was painful beyond imagining. Makes Skyline feel like a walk in the park.

z

[FIGHT ON]

Good post FIGHT ON. As we say in the south, your momma raised you right. We gotta meet on the trail one of these days. You planning on doing Skyline this fall?

By the way, I'm a USC fan, but I wasn't at the game. I was at a friend's house. Unfortunately, he is from Texas, and all the way through the game, I heard the constant, "Yeah! Hook 'em Horns!" refrain. It was painful beyond imagining. Makes Skyline feel like a walk in the park.

z

one of these days. Would be fun! I wanna do Rabbit Peak too.
I don't know how to make one of those poll things. "Do you knock down ducks that define unclear trails?" That would be interesting.
It's all USC these days. Vince Young, can't win em all.

[halhiker]

Don't think you'd want me on a SAR team. I'd probably leave you out there to follow some other lost soul's misplaced ducks until you perish....and then bury your body in one of those Texas grave mounds.

That's pretty messed up dude! Leave somebody out there huh? Pretty sick. If I had the opportunity I would help anybody, including you.

I was joking. Sorry I didn't use an emoticon so you'd get the joke although from how long it took you to get the Texas burial mound thing I gather you're a little slow on the uptake.

[j-runner]

There's only one visible walk through cave on the way down the south side of the "pile". As long as you get started in that direction & head down, you'll be on the right track toward the shelter

[FIGHT ON]

There's only one visible walk through cave on the way down the south side of the "pile". As long as you get started in that direction & head down, you'll be on the right track toward the shelter

This trail from the tram is like a trap.You believe you will be able to have a clear trail all the way to the summit and back to the tram.
And that's what you see all the way up. You see a clear trail all along the way and clear signs where there are forks. Your goal it obviously the summit so you keep going. You walk over 5 miles and then the trail ends. But not at the summit. You are on your own now without a trail. I don't believe most people that come up the tram signed up for this part. I think they expected a clear trail all the way to the summit. I know everyone is responsible for being prepared but this situation lures people that aren't aware of the dangers of going off trail. So even if they have a map it's not going to be as clear as the what they had relied on up to this point. A clear trail and signs is what they followed. Now it's gone. Sure they can elect to go back down and not summit but come on! Walk all that way and know its just a little bit further? That ain't right. It's a trap and an accident that will happen over and over. If it can happen to people like Jim who has hiked forever imagine the odds of tourists getting dumped off at the tram. It's gonna keep happening.
I think one more sign just like all the other signs along the trail should be mounted on the summit with a big fat arrow pointing the way back to the trail. That might not suit some but who cares about you. You can live with one more sign and save someones life.

No trail section

[Perry]

Interesting point. There is a small sign on the peak signpost with the tram image and an arrow pointing towards the tram. If I remember right, it does point north of the peak shelter, which is a cross-country route back to Miller Saddle. If it pointed slightly south of the peak shelter, that would direct hikers back to the trail. But in the winter time, the cross country routes are more popular. Maybe a marker where the use trail makes a sharp turn...