Time to "FIX" the Skyline "trail"

[zippetydude]

Perhaps we can station an octopus just outside the trailhead? It can't be that expensive, we could pay him in peanut butter...

z

[magikwalt]

The constant questioning about whether this board or Cy's website help or hurt the number of people attempting the "route" is meaningless.

After eliminating any site that had a link to Cy's sites or this blog and in not using any of the countless trip reports or summit posting that are available I was still able to locate all of these with only one simple search.

http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1057 ... 4737yShkwy

http://www.trails.com/tcatalog_trail.as ... HGS241-045

http://www.ocmetro.com/archives/ocmetro ... 12504.html

http://books.google.com/books?id=XxB9YR ... JD7dZyvMBo

http://dave92264.blogspot.com/2007/12/c ... -hike.html

http://www.summitpost.org/route/155924/ ... louds.html

http://books.google.com/books?id=Rih9yn ... D9gUK5kg8s

I think that attempting to stop people from testing themselves is denying human nature. As long as there is an ocean there will be men who go to sea in an attempt to rescue others. Even the most highly trained, well prepared individuals or groups in the world require rescue services occasionally.

I've helped "hikers" who made it half way to the picnic tables, were beet red in the face and out of fluids make it back to the museum. My hope is that next time they'll apply a little of what they learned to be better prepared to make it.

I actually hope that every person rescued by RMRU went back and "won the day" on their next attempt. I certainly don't think that just because they required rescue this time means they need it everytime. I enjoy being around bold confident people who occasionally take it to the edge.

Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go. T. S. Eliot

[guest]

Well,
I just don't want to see regulation from "misuse" (for lack of better terms), and many agencies responsible for plucking people off this route, have been considering regulation.
I, and many on this board would prefer that doesn't happen.

I agree, people, myself included, will always challenge themselves, and I hope they continue with success.

Yeah, the cat's outta the bag, and the www is a great source of info. Maybe through this source of communication, we can keep that from happening.

If not, those of us who enjoy this route regularly, and those occasionally, will pay some price.

So, come one & all and test yourself, ill prepared or not, give it a go, cause we have people who'll save you!

Of course, there's other ways up this mt., and be sure it won't make it on this board.

ss

[Cy Kaicener]

I agree with you Walt. All the imformation in the world wont help too much if you are not fit enough (like doing at least 5000 ft elevation gain the week before), having the right gear, going with someone who has done it before, telling people where you are going, and not starting too late. You need to know when to go and when not to go. In this case the message board will help.
Most of the rescues have occurred when people have started too late.

[magikwalt]

As everyone is considering the reasons rescues are required on Skyline/C2C it would help to truely consider all the variables and not just focus on the "wealth of information" that is available about our local secret.

Let's look at the wealth of info surrounding the PCT. If it were truely a "challenge" all those needing rescue wanted then the Snow Creek route to the summit would be a good one. But if you compare it to "the route" the differences are significant.

The easiest trailhead access possible and relative safety for your vehicle. I think this is an appeal for many and also allows for familiarization trips up to to whatever level a person feels comfortable.

A well defined path for more than 95% of the trip. Prior to hiking it the first time I had only been to 4,000ft once. The morning of my first hike to the tram I had intended to stop at 5,000ft. I got there in such good shape and the trail was so obvious that I continued on. Granted I was carring a GPS with waypoints on the route ahead, still had more than a gallon of Gatoraide at that time. Also I feel comfortable alone in the dark by myself for extended periods of time.

A bailout at the Tram Station if your "energy level" isn't optimal. Heck 90% of the hikes done on this route terminate at the tram. There's a bar with cold beer, an easy ride down and its a nice termination point for the trip.

I think it's a nice test for most hikers. Weather, time, snow and ice do change the challenges present on this hike. The way heat and dehydration work together on this trail is something straight out of the medical text books. As with any area you know, once snow falls its a different world. The trail/route disappears and the physical demands and risk of a slip/fall accident increase rapidly.

Bottom line for those of us that see the trail on a weekly basis and those fine people who come to rescue stranded hikers: The trailhead and tram station will remain a pile of sugar you'll never chase the ants away from.

Close the trail and jail those that use it. Before long there will be other "routes" leading to the Mountain Station. Look at the topo maps and you'll see the various routes that are possible.

If the debate to close the route gets rolling then there are probably more good reasons to leave it open than there are to close it. I think the post suggesting trail work at the top was the best idea to date.

[Perry]

I like the idea of a sign at 2,500 feet:
------
Your Elevation: 2,500 feet.
Trailheads: 500 feet (approx.)
Tramway: 8,516 feet
Mt. San Jacinto Peak: 10,834 feet
------
From Palm Springs, that desert peak looks high up there, and I think some new hikers get the impression that it's near the tram when in reality it's only a third of the way there, especially when you take into account the distance and variable grades of the high desert section.

[Perry]

1 1/2 gallons of water
SOMEONE WHO KNOWS THE ROUTE
Good hiking boots .................... Matches
First Aid Kit .............................. Extra Food & Water
Map & Compass ....................... Sun Glasses
Knife ....................................... Sun Screen
Extra Clothing .......................... Gloves
Candle .................................... Flashlight / Extra Bulb & Batteries
Whistle ................................... Space Blanket

I would drop mention of a whistle, candle, knife, matches, and sunscreen because it makes it difficult to take this seriously. I would add "Map & Compass for upper section" because otherwise people will think that's a joke when they see a well-worn trail.

As far as whether this forum increases use of Skyline, I don't have a strong opinion either way. There are some posts where people cancelled their hike because of what they read here. But if it does slightly increase foot-traffic, we also have to consider the positive effects that Skyline has on a person's life and well-being.

[Rick M]

When I started this thread I did so out of concern for people hiking the Skyline. Not because I am a rescuer getting fed up with rescuing people. I think all of us in SAR are willing to rescue any and all that are in need. That is what we volunteer to do.

I do/done most of my hiking off trail. I love that experience. If there are lot of people doing the same thing a trail needs to be done for preservation and in fact a trail has developed. Because the trailhead is accessed and the tram facilities at the top, people with all degrees of skills will continue to come. A sign might discourage one but not the next. Just as increased traffic on our highways bring rerouting, widening and other changes, so should trails when the need arises.

I heard no opposition to "restocking" the summit hut on San Jacinto. That is part of what is called PSAR, Preventative Search and Rescue. One could easily make the case for anybody hiking to the summit should be prepared. It doesn't detract from my experience going to the summit that there is a hut that offers shelter with minimal provisions that I don't plan on using and have left things for others in need in the past. I believe the same holds true for the upper section of the Skyline.

For those that long for a wild route finding challenge, the Skyline is no longer the answer. You cannot go back in time. As mentioned here by others, we have some big mountains with lots of other opportunities if this is what you desire.

ps I am speaking for myself, not the SAR community. I did trail work long before joining SAR.

[guest]

I agree with all of you, thanks for the discussion, here's to a good evolution of this "route"!

ss

[KathyW]

It is interesting that the "Skyline Trail" gets so much attention on this forum. Sometimes that attention seems to overshadow the fact that there are some other beautiful hiking trails in the area. I don't have an opinion on fixing the "Skyline Trail" but I think it would be nice to see more posts related to other areas/trails in the San Jacinto Park/Wilderness and Santa Rosas.