Yet another rescue of Skyline

[KathyW]

I do believe the people that went on this hike were probably adequately warned as to the difficulty level. I'm sure the leader was just trying to enjoy what he loves to do and encourage others that are in as good of shape to give it a try. It's really not fair to be critical of the leader on this hike if you weren't involved in it and don't really know the whole story, but at the same time a healthy and productive discussion on group hikes is just fine.

I once had inexperienced and strong-willed hikers I did not know go on a climb up a desert mountain with me. They insisted that they had the necessary experience and came along even after being warned of the difficulty level. We got separated a couple of times because they did not like my route choices and thought they could find a better way (they had been warned that the terrain might be a bit rugged and some Class 3). It was not a good experience and I sat waiting at the parking spot all night and into the next day until they finally showed up. Fortunately, they came out before SAR got there. They were very critical of me after the climb (and I'm sure I deserved some of it), so I understand what that feels like. The incident made me nervous about taking people I don't know on tough hikes/climbs.

[Perry]

Unfortunately forums like this one do not have the ability to control what people do with what is written here. I respect your right to say what you want.....but wish your choice would be silence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc

I think if the search and rescue people asked all of the victims, most of them have never even heard of this message board. There is some evidence that the forum has caused some people to cancel/postpone their plans to hike Skyline. Last year there were a lot of rescues everywhere on the mountain, not just Skyline. If somebody can prove me wrong, then I would delete the message board, but I really don't see it contributing to problems. Another thing to consider is that hiking and meeting friends improves people's quality of life. Some people live their whole lives just trying to not die, but you can die of old age and be bored and lonely your whole life.

[donnie]

Hello guys.
FACTS:
I was a participant on the C2T hike Sunday July 15, 2008 that was arranged and led by a hiker called Udi. He posted this hike as Hot and 8000' of elevation gain and a very difficult hike. I signed up as a participant and knew two other hikers who also signed up.

One man, named Erik later added his name to the list. Erik had credentials of hiking Mt Whitney and other than that I knew Nothing about him. Erik contacted me and I told him I would lead him during the hike provided we Start at no later than 2:00 AM. Erik agreed to meet me at 2:00 AM but then sent me an e-mail stating he changed his mind and would start with Udi at 3:00. I started early, solo and ahead of the group and planned to wait atop and regroup.

I had an uneventful hike and stopped at 7400' for a snooze (where on Saturday I had cached extra water for anyone in need)

A couple of hours later or so, the group of hikers arrived and stopped for a break where I was.

Hmmm, Erik was behind and no one knew where he was. Udi called Erik on his Cell phone and Erik answered. He was at the 5,000' level, he gave us his coordinates. Udi prudently called him back several times to check his progress, and when he felt Erik was not progressing, he called the authorities who then took NO chances and called the helicoptor.
The rescue was complete, Erik was lifted and in good shape and spirits. Not dehydrated, No heat stroke. No medical aid at all was needed.

MY OPINION: This hike appeals to hikers who want to do something on the edge. Be it bragging rights or personal bests, C2C is thrilling with the added heat issue in summer. We all have goals and try to obtain them.. Erik made a poor choice because he was not trained to do such a brutal physical endeavor and he ignored all warnings and an opportunity to be led with an early start. He made HIS choices. Udi as trip leader assumed Erik was capable. Udi relied on Eriks word, not his actions. If Udi had regrouped at the picnic tables which is usual, he probably would of recommended Erik turn back.

As far as the burden to Search and Rescue, really, how different is this than a hiker with a twisted ankle? Or a hiker who has elevation sicness in the high sierras? Do we close all trails because of rocks and roots or too much elevation? Do we just stay on paved trails to be safe? We all set our sights at targets, yes?

Here is Eriks Story:Hello Donnie and Udi,

Wow what an adventure for my first ODC event! I'm going to post the whole thing on the event page, so I'll just say now; I absolutely would have called out rescue for someone else in this same situation. To me this is part of the camaraderie and the unspoken bond between all hikers, climbers and backpackers. We help each other out where and when we need to, because there but for the grace of God...

I want to thank both of you for your efforts and your encouraging words. Your phone call came to me at a moment when I really needed to hear a friendly voice. I was having serious doubts; and even being over 5 miles in, I had almost decided to turn back. That may have been a worse outcome to this story. You guys bolstered me and gave me the resolve to keep going and be judicious about level of exertion and the use of my water. I knew I would have to proceed very slowly and figured once I got close to the final push up the face, I intended to find a small spot of shade where I could just sack out for a couple of hours and wait for the heat to dissipate a little. I knew people could see me from the tram station and hoped that they would see that I was proceeding. Instead they came down. You may have heard our exchanges back and forth, I kept telling them "I'm fine, have plenty of water and I'm coming up to you. Don't come down!" But they came anyway. I highly recommend being winched up into a helicopter, it is one hell of a ride!

Today, I don't feel any the worse for all the wear and tear. Same sort of sensation as when I've just finished on Whitney. If they had let me go on, I figure I would have got to the tram between 6 and 7. I was very worried for Sri, he got way ahead of me with only 3 liters of water and no map, GPS or knowledge of the trail. I'm glad he's okay, the rangers came across him at 7200' and decided to let him finish it out. All's well that ends well. Thank you guys.

Looks like I have some work to do so I can hike better with you guys, but we will again.

Erik

[HikeUp]

Donnie: Thanks for posting the first hand account...always helpful (necessary even) in fully understanding the situation being discussed.

[AlanK]

donnie -- Your description of the events last Saturday was most enlightening. So was Eric's.

You ask if this rescue was different from that of a person with a twisted ankle. I think all rescues are probably different from each other. One obvious point here is that a twisted ankle is an accident, presumably unpredictable. Erik's problem was a lot more predictable, as you point out when you say that Erik made a poor choice.

As you say, we all challenge ourselves in various ways. We also strive to be prepared to meet the challenges we face. When someone is obviously not adequately prepared, we do a lot of second guessing. That process is useful -- it is a good way to learn to avoid problems down the road.

People are right in saying that Erik was responsible for himself. That's life in the adult world. I prefer it that way.

Nevertheless, I think it would have been better if Udi had been in a position to urge Eric to go back dwn early. To me, that's what a person takes on when he leads a hike. There are other opinions on that, which I can respect. I certainly don't condemn Udi and I suspect that he will be a etter hike leader having been through this. I think I'll be a better hike leader just having heard about this.

[zippetydude]

Sounds to me like it was all Donnie's fault!

Donnie: I would appreciate it if, in the future, you would carry a laptop on your way up and post the events as they unfold. This would be helpful for everyone.

Just kidding, of course. I agree with HikeUp - I appreciate your first-hand account, as it really helped clear up the picture.

See you on the trail!

z

[Yichus]

Thanks, Donnie, for the first-hand report, which sheds much-needed light on the “mishap.” The way some people described Eric’s condition, you'd have thought that he was on the ground in a fetal position, sans water, with buzzards circling above ominously, their beaks ready to tear into skin-seared flesh.

I wonder if those who needlessly attacked Udi--saying, for example, that he "abandoned a thristy hiker who was in bad shape"--will extend an apology to him now that the facts have been aired?

The knee-jerk insults directed at Udi were really unfortunate.

[AlanK]

Before we all pull muscles patting anyone on the back, let's review. We have a guy on a group hike who, in the judgement of at least one of his mates, made poor choices and ignored all warnings. He was struggling alone in high heat and making very little progress. In the end, he was airlifted off of the mountain, at a cost of thousands of dollars to taxpayers. At least he enjoyed the ride! And we haven't even begun to discuss the wisdom of relying on a cell phone to keep track of a group.

I'll stick to the view that there were mistakes made and lessons to be learned. I don't actually need dead bodies and feasting buzzards to do that!

[HikeUp]

By Erik's account, he was dealing with his situation in a way that he actually didn't need rescuing. The SAR didn't actually need to be called and if there had been any communication/staying in touch/hiking together/common sense happening, the hike coordinator wouldn't have so easily relied on the SAR option.

Stick together, stay in communication (reliably), have a sweep, etc. seems to be the lesson learned. SAR is supposed to be a last resort. Frankly this is hiking 101 and should not need to be learned through trial and error.

I don't think any apologies are in order. This is constructive criticism and not an attack.

p.s. is this horse dead yet?

[guest]

Thanks for the 1st-hand account of the ordeal.

We've gone over most all of this, but I hold to the fact that it all could have been avoided by not posted this hike during extreme conditions, regardless of who is ultimately responsible.
If some want to do Skyline in the heat,(which I don't recommend) it's best to plan it amongst friends , or with people that we know & their abilities, (those that take offense to this recommendation & feel they need to post it here, save your rebuttal, but please take a moment to consider you may eventually be effecting this trail for all of us).

As I mentioned previous, the trail is been looked at closely by different agencies to prevent the amount of rescues, and none of us what to "lose it", or have it restricted to certain times of year.

Yes, we all like a challenge, all are independent to a great extent, all are responsible for our own safety, it's just a bad idea to organize a hike on this trail this time of year.

ss