Clarifying the trail at the peak

[Hikin_Jim]

I think when they say "structure" they're talking about building windbreaks out of rocks around your site, things of that sort. I don't think most people would consider a duck a structure.

[asabat]

I think when they say "structure" they're talking about building windbreaks out of rocks around your site, things of that sort. I don't think most people would consider a duck a structure.

I used to agree. Now, there seems to be a trend to removing even the slightest trace of manmade structure. In some areas even signs are not being replaced, or are being removed. The toilets were removed from the Whitney Trail, and SEKI will be removing bear boxes in the near future.

For now, it probably depends on the attitude of the ranger (and the hiker). But, the trail maintenance is the job of the land manager, not each hiker independently. (True, volunteers are a BIG part of this, but in cooperation with the manager.) Otherwise, where do you stop? Ducks. Blazes. Rock-lined trails. Flagging tape. Handrails. Fences.

Again, I'm not fanatic, but structures are structures.

[FIGHT ON]

I think when they say "structure" they're talking about building windbreaks out of rocks around your site, things of that sort. I don't think most people would consider a duck a structure.

I used to agree. Now, there seems to be a trend to removing even the slightest trace of manmade structure. In some areas even signs are not being replaced, or are being removed. The toilets were removed from the Whitney Trail, and SEKI will be removing bear boxes in the near future.

For now, it probably depends on the attitude of the ranger (and the hiker). But, the trail maintenance is the job of the land manager, not each hiker independently. (True, volunteers are a BIG part of this, but in cooperation with the manager.) Otherwise, where do you stop? Ducks. Blazes. Rock-lined trails. Flagging tape. Handrails. Fences.

Again, I'm not fanatic, but structures are structures.

A trail is a structure... 4. anything composed of parts arranged together in some way; an organization. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/structure

[AlanK]

A trail is a structure... 4. anything composed of parts arranged together in some way; an organization. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/structure

I agree. you go out and try to build your own trail and you'll find out how negative the "powers that be" are about your structure.

[zippetydude]

Hey, what's the story on that burial mound?

z

[phydeux]

Hey, what's the story on that burial mound?

z

The burial mound is probably Fight Ons's memorial to the 2005 USC Football team, who were beaten in the BCS championship game by the University of Texas' football team on January 4, 2006 in the Rose Bowl. Under those rocks lie Fight On's hopes and dreams for Trojan glory, along with a few long dead roses.

[FIGHT ON]

Hey, what's the story on that burial mound?

z

The burial mound is probably Fight Ons's memorial to the 2005 USC Football team, who were beaten in the BCS championship game by the University of Texas' football team on January 4, 2006 in the Rose Bowl. Under those rocks lie Fight On's hopes and dreams for Trojan glory, along with a few long dead roses.

What an odd place for a memorial. if it really is one. AlanK is thinking right most of the time. Like 99.999999%. (its just that .000001% that's the most important) I looked and couldn't find anything so maybe he was joking. BACK IT UP ALAN!
oh yeah, that game. I was there. 4 rows up in the endzone where mr vince did his thang. I play it over and over AND OVER. WHY YOU REMIND ME OF THAT?

Hey, your name sounds like mine sort of. Or like my dogs name, FIDO.
I let him run lost all over he neighborhood so I can run around yelling my name FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGHHHTTT OOOOOOOOOOOOON.
Didn't think of that did ya Mr. Jim.
Are vocal cords structures? so stupid.

[AlanK]

I admit to a bit of whimsy on that one -- phydeux certainly got it.

It does look like something is buried in there, though.

[Rick M]

Maybe this might provoke "Dwight" to kick me again.
My dad showed me my first duck back in the fifties. Apparently they used them when teenagers constructing trails back in the CCCs of the thirties and they possibly got that from others that had gone before them. Simply a large rock with a smaller one on top with a protrusion on it pointing the way (looks like a duck). Over the years since I've seen a few more but not too many anymore (maybe those have been knocked down?). In my teens when I saw them I would wonder about the person/circumstances connected with it and wonder if my dad might have even made it 70+ years ago. That was in the pre-GPS days and most didn't have access to the USGS topos that we can now hit the print button and have one for wherever we go.

I've built less than a dozen or so in my life and usually to mark a tricky spot for my return and have usually dismantled them on the return. I have also "rebuilt or fixed" some that were in need of repair (back in the 70-80s but not recently except on some barren lava flows on Hawaii where the official trail is now marked with lava cairns where recent flows have covered the normal trail. In the fading light one year, following these helped me stay off the fresh jagged aa lava and stay on the trail. Some were piles 3 feet high and easy to spot sticking up on the horizon. Without these I can only imagine the number of hikers getting off the trail such as it was and cutting their hands and knees falling on the aa flows not to mention the fact that you would then have countless tracks all over the place and many SAR missions.

I got disoriented coming off the top of Jacinto once and perhaps if I didn't have the skills and experience that I have might have become another SAR incident. People hear about the trail to the peak and expect to be able to get there with a reasonable amount of safety without being a Jedidiah Smith. As an employee at REI for several years I saw many different types coming in the store for stuff to enable them to get a mountain experience. Some with lots of money able to buy every latest thing to those that found sticker shock on everything we sold and I would give them ideas and suggestions to help them have a "safe" but enjoyable experience.

I think the trail up to Jacinto needs to be such that a person coming up the tram with the intent to hike up to the peak "using the trail" should be able to do that. I remember when this thing about take only pictures and leave only footprints came out. I was a radical environmentalist at the time and thought about all the places I'd been to where even leaving footprints degraded the area. I have to say that the top of Jacinto is not one of these places and path should be constructed such that a beginner could follow to the peak from the hut and back. Those who disagree might want to consider joining a SAR team to save lives by helping look for those that get lost.

[asabat]

I have to say that the top of Jacinto is not one of these places and path should be constructed such that a beginner could follow to the peak from the hut and back.

I agree. I'm simply saying that it is the Park's jurisdiction, not ours. I suspect they might want some volunteers to take this on, or maybe not.

And please don't misunderstand. I'm 100% for personal responsibility, rather than the guvmint doing it. However, they write the rules.

Those who disagree might want to consider joining a SAR team to save lives by helping look for those that get lost.

The same argument could be made for paving the trail, installing reflective signs every 100 feet, water fountains, and/or providing guides to make sure we don't get hurt.

No disrespect intended. While I'm not a member of SAR, I am a member of a couple other disaster organizations, one of which sometimes works with SAR.