Hiking C2C soon?

[Ed]

I know it sounds like waffling, but I agree with both Cynthia and Bluerail.

[Wildhorse]

The stories Ed told on Friday, and his words, have been with me all weekend. For one thing, the Longs Peak story reminded me of a fellow I know who descended from Kilimanjaro in the arms of experienced sherpas while he hallucinated, his brain having been overwhelmed by altitude. He is a brilliant man - MD and PhD. Not fit for that hike, but encouraged to try by the person who had planned the trip.

More than anything I thought about Ed's climbing acquaintance Maynard. For a hiker, he had a fine death with mythical meaning. It would have been better only if it had been later. In case you ever read Pilgrim's Progess, it is like the two young men who hiked the Hills of Beulah just before they swam the river of death.

I thought too about the hikers Guest drove back to the Museum yesterday. Very impressive. I have enjoyed exploring wild and remote places many times with a man much older than me who, in spite of the vascular limitations of his age, is carried by great skill and by an experienced understanding of his body to great heights and over long distances. It would diminish our humanity to stop such people.

What really stood out to me in Guest's narrative from yesterday, was the "conga line" at San Jacinto. The conga line represents the damage we are doing to a very unique wild land. It reminds me of what we are doing to Grand Canyon, Yosemite and Yellowstone. Compared to such damage, rescuing a few hikers in trouble is nearly nothing at all to notice.

The mountains of southern California are being burned and trammeled by an ever multiplying human herd. We are a herd of "blundering fools."

[halhiker]

Maybe one way to curtail rescues is to publish the names and pictures of people rescued in the newspaper like they do Johns in those prostitution sting operations. Nothing like a little public shaming to stop foolish behavior. Now, that's not to say that there are not people who actually require rescue but I'd estimate those are maybe 10%. Most are just weak and looking for an easy out. Notice how many don't require further attention after their free chopper ride.

If there's going to be a newspaper article on Skyline, it should be about people requiring rescue. Put their names and pictures in the paper and tell their story. The select few who legitimately require rescue probably wouldn't mind their stories being told. They know it'll instruct others. For the rest, the embarrassment will serve as a warning to other neophytes who should stick to the Bump and Grind.

[bluerail]

During the recent rescue this weekend, the hikers started nice and early to avoid the sun. They started at 2am. They were rescued at 4pm. Wow, hard to imagine. Better yet they started with 40 ounces, and we're actually dumb enough to plan in advance to resupply at box 2 ! And then stupid enough to tell Sar of their plan. This stuff makes me worry about who I share the roads with.

[Ed]

I have my doubts about whether the rescue boxes are on net a positive factor. This spring I saw some people rummaging through the first one, I assume looking for water.

And when we hand out advice, I think that sometimes there isn't enough emphasis on simply being able to continue uphill at 1,000 feet per hour or better, for the duration of the hike. The advice on starting early, carrying enough water, and avoiding high temperatures is all very good, but it tends to be a bit qualitative, and following it is not enough if the hiker simply can't continue walking uphill.

But, excepting a few people on this discussion board, Cynthia is right, it's simply crazy to hike the trail in the summer.

[Pitownpi]

The mountains of southern California are being burned and trammeled by an ever multiplying human herd. We are a herd of "blundering fools."

AMEN to that!
if you blog it,
they will come...


yahoooo, free chopper flights!

[Hikin_Jim]

During the recent rescue this weekend, the hikers started nice and early to avoid the sun. They started at 2am. They were rescued at 4pm. Wow, hard to imagine. Better yet they started with 40 ounces, and we're actually dumb enough to plan in advance to resupply at box 2 ! And then stupid enough to tell Sar of their plan. This stuff makes me worry about who I share the roads with.

You mean they deliberately set out planning to break into Box 2 and take supplies intended for emergencies only? What scum bags.

Hey, how about we prosecute people who misuse emergency equipment?

HJ

[Wildhorse]

Ed wrote, "there isn't enough emphasis on simply being able to continue uphill at 1,000 feet per hour or better, for the duration of the hike."

This is very important. The skyline is something like hiking up the Devil's Slide trail five times (1,650 feet climb), one time right after another. Few people can do it once in less than hour. And Skyline is harder because it is in the sun and heat.

The message I hear, overall, on this discussion board is mainly that people who are rescued will be ridiculed here. I also hear the message about the importance of starting early and carrying a lot of water, and that one should not do this unless one has recent experience with other very difficult hikes. I have known many people who have climbed Skyline without ever visiting this discussion board.

I am amazed that some of the people I have known have climbed Skyline. I would not have considered them fit for much easier hikes. One was completely unprepared, unexperienced and only marginally fit for hiking on a treadmill. He met his friends at the Museum with less than liter of water. They shared. He chuckles about it, that no-big-deal kind of chuckle.

The sign at the beginning of the skyline trail only mentions water.

The Forest Service uses the permit system in wilderness to monitor trail usage and to inform hikers of the rules and risks. (It is their way of complying with the Wilderness Act.) In some cases, like at the Devil Slide Trail, the permit system is also used to reduce the number of people using the trail on weekends in summer for the sake of protecting solitude and the land. The permit system is enforced mainly by volunteer rangers. It is an imperfect system, but many minds have concluded that it is the best that can be done in the circumstances. That has been supported by research. The permit system is supplemented in certain circumstances, mainly when fire risk is high, by closures of the forest including the trails. My impression is that the BLM is not currently set up to administer a permit system. The BLM tried to start a permit system for many or all of the trails in the National Monument about ten years ago to protect bighorn sheep and to educate trail users about rules and risks. The public opposition overwhelmed the public support. It was a divisive issue in the hiking clubs. Perhaps others here remember this.

[cynthia23]

Interesting point, Ken. A permit system is probably logistically impossible. I love Hal's idea of the "Gallery of Shame" but legally I can't see how it could be possible--since they haven't broken any laws (this could be an argument for making hiking it in summer illegal!) After further thought, I'm actually leaning a bit more toward the idea Zip and others have mentioned, of charging for rescues (and placing a sign to that effect at the beginning of the trail.) I understand doing something similar had a very significant effect (drop) in number of rescues in Yosemite. We should never underestimate how motivated people are by money (or the fear of losing it.) But summer closure may be the simplest way to go. The 'regulars' will still sneak up (which is fine) but it would probably stop most 'civilians', which is the goal here.

I'm confused by the various stories about the people rescued on Saturday. Guest and Bluerail mentioned hikers who were rescued halfway and the only thing the paper mentioned was a solitary hiker being rescued at 2 pm from 1000 k by helicopter (could that be the hiker who headed downhill, mentioned by NeverWas?) Can anyone clarify?

If their plan (such as it was) was to 'resupply' with water at Rescue Box 2, one wonders where they heard about the boxes. What I'm really itching to know is where all these various rescue-ees hear about C2C and why they decide it will be fine to hike the trail in summer. I think Ed and others make a good point that the basic problem with climbing Skyline --that it just goes on and on and on and on, comprising a really extraordinary endurance challenge--is not sufficiently emphasized in the various sites that mention the trail. Having water, leaving early, and doing a hike every weekend are not enough. People understand what it is to climb a steep trail, but they don't get what it is to climb a steep trail for hours and hours and hours on end. Let alone when the baseline temperature is in the mid 80's the entire time and one is flooded with direct radiant heat.

One thing's completely clear, though: something has to change.

[zippetydude]

What I'm really itching to know is where all these various rescue-ees hear about C2C and why they decide it will be fine to hike the trail in summer.

I think that's the most pertinent point yet. If we knew where and why, then any proposed solution would be much more likely to improve the situation. Like I've said many times, we can post all we want on this site about the dangers, but if most of the rescued hikers have never even consulted this board, we're accomplishing nothing. Signs have been posted and proposed, but once the potential hikers are at the trail head, there's a lot of momentum already in place and they're unlikely to cancel. So, as they say, kill the monster while it's small. Where do they first hear about Skyline? Where do they get follow-up information? Could reasonable, friendly warnings be placed there?

BTW, warnings that I personally would listen to are not generally very drastic. I feel much more confident in calm, rational explanations that offer attractive alternatives (Instead of "Don't Do Skyline You Stupid Fool, You're Going to Die!" I would suggest something more like "Save your Skyline adventure for a cool autumn morning, Summer Skyline attempts are generally hot and miserable and often result in rescues. Sadly, the blistering summer heat causes several deaths on the trail each year as well."

But again, back to the original point - where do the majority of rescued hikers hear about this trail? Could we simply go back and source SAR records? It wouldn't surprise me if that was one of the questions the ask people after they rescue them.

z