Yet another rescue of Skyline

[Hikin_Jim]

Maybe with Skyline it gets back to that "it's 'only' 11 miles" thing. I think people just can't get it through their heads that this 11 miles is so different than other "trails" that they've been on. In a way, I think calling it the Skyline "trail" may be unhelpful. Perhaps we should call it the Skyline trace or something (Skyline Death March is kinda catchy ). Some may be lulled by the word "trail," thinking, "well, it may be steep, but there's a trail. I'm sure there will be some nicely graded switchbacks, and, since it's a trail, it'll be easy to follow."

[AlanK]

I am happy to refer to it exclusively as the "Skyline Death March." It has a nice ring to it and is consistent with my general belief in truth in advertising.

[Mountain Impulse]

ODC is a relatively new group. I wonder if it wouldn't be helpful for them to publish some standards:

-keep the group together
-keep track of your people
-have a sweep

something like that; just some basics. From what I've heard it doesn't sound like they have any defined qualifications for a hike leader or standards for that leader on a hike.

Jim,

ODC says you are an "activity coordinator" if you post an outing. This allows one to take the position, as I think many do, that when you post a trip you are just saying that you, as coordinator, will be doing that particular hike on a particular day, and a limited number of people are free to join if they wish by signing up. Some postings throw out caveats such as "don't come if you don't know the route because I will not wait for you if you can't keep up." Obviously, this is not the same as being a "leader" in the regular sense. The fact is that assuming leadership responsibilities (e.g., screening participants, having a sweep, and making sure that everyone has made it back to the trailhead) is something that an ODC coordinator has to impose on him or herself. The few ODC hikes I've led, I've basically done as I would as a Sierra Club leader.

Obviously, the greater flexibility of ODC, as opposed to the strict requirements of Sierra Club outings, is something that appeals to many people. But flexibility shouldn't be used as an avenue to abdicate basic responsibilities if you put together an outing and invite participants.

Augie

[HikeUp]

Crikey. What happened to basic common sense? Even if you're not a leader, just a passer by for instance, you don't leave a lost thirsty soul on the trail just so you can make the summit.

I may sound harsh but it certainly appears common sense took a back seat on this hike. Everything turned out fine thankfully, but there was a good chance that things could have gotten worse before SAR made it to the one in need.

That being said, I respect that the hike "coordinator" has accepted that he made mistakes and misjudgments and will hopefully learn from this experience, as will everyone. As harsh as it may seem, the comments being made here and on ODC are not "attacks" or intended to make him a scapegoat, but are mostly intended as constructive criticism.

[magikwalt]

Basic leader knowledge, ODC coordinator rules or common decency. Pick any of them and they were lacking. You don't leave people behind in the desert with the valley floor roasting at 113º. This guy's caviler attitude towards the dangers being pointed out before the hike and then the ease with which he accepted that everything turned out okay just brought out an ugly side of me.

To each of you I apologize for pushing the keys too hard.

[guest]

Hey Walt,

I can relate with you tone & comments, especially when someone shows serious disregard for others & those trying to keep it from happening again.

And, many on ODC are becoming overly defensive of one of "their members"unable or unwilling to recognize how serious this whole matter was.

Lastly, the people who chose to join this ill-fated hike bear some of the responsibility for attempting it in the 1st place, with a leader, club or not.

see ya on the trail,

ss

[Davis2001r6]

What ever happened to being accountable for yourself. If your doing a hike for the first time research it and have some common sense not to do it in July if your at all worried about your abilities. I place more blame on the individual than the "leader".

[HikeUp]

Actually you can also point to all the hikers in the group for leaving this person behind thus leaving the singular option of calling SAR after, and only after, they accomplished their individual goal of summiting. Walking away from someone in need. Seriously, I'd like to know the logic behind that choice...it might help clarify the lesson to be learned.

[Yichus]

Hi, Davis2001r6:

Hear, hear!

-Y

[AlanK]

What ever happened to being accountable for yourself. If your doing a hike for the first time research it and have some common sense not to do it in July if your at all worried about your abilities. I place more blame on the individual than the "leader".

I think that the previous posts placed appropriate responsibility on the individuals affected. After all, if I go on a hike and die from some problem I could have avoided by being adequately prepared, it certainly doesn't help me any to have my survivors blaming the hike leader.

However, the previous posts also reflect a basic fact: If a person takes on the role of leading a hike, he (or she) assumes some responsibility. "Let 'em fend for themselves" is not leading. In this case, we have a leader who evidently left less capable people in his wake who were having trouble. A polite word for that is "negligence."

In addition to keeping the group together or seeing to the organization of sub-groups, a leader has some pre-hike responsibilities. On an ordinary hike, these are minimal and might include making sure rank beginners have decent shoes, water, etc. On Skyline, the leader should try to make sure that the people coming along know, and are prepared for, what they are getting into. As we have heard many time on these pages, Skyline is no place for beginners and Skyline in July is no place for anyone but the most fit (and even there caution is urged).