Missing hiker search July 19

[halhiker]

no regulation. instead, sites like this (and perry's website) should provide a basis. hopefully more and more people who attempt c2c look up info online and find it.

I'd just take any web info on C2C and link to hiker's deaths and make sure people know clearly that you are a moron if you try to hike C2C/ Skyline in the summer without having a great feel for hiking in this climate.

btw, I know someone who is attempting c2c this weekend. ridiculous...however at least this person has done it several times and loves hiking in the heat, and knows how to prepare. lets hope

The thing that amazes me is that people travel here to do this hike. If I were going to travel somewhere to do a hike in the summer this is the LAST place I'd be going. San J, San G, the Sierras are all fine options and perfect for this time of year.

It is possible to hike in the desert in the summer but this hike is not the one to do. Too long, too tough, too exposed, too committed, too hot and too dry.

Personally, I'm looking forward to trips to the Sierras and Tahoe next month. Skyline will have to wait until October and then only on a weekday. I hate crowds.

[halhiker]

Just the facts. PSMP has responded to 5 calls in the last 6 weeks. 2 were succesful rescues and 3 were body recoveries with one addditional recovery while searching for another. Three of the four were deceased before PSMP was contacted. The exception was the orange county hiker who was hiking with his girlfriend and was so close to the Museum that paramedics were able to reach him without PSMP assistance. His body temperture was 108 when paramedics reached him and he passed on the way to desert regional. The man fom Montreal(mid fifties) went to the Indian Canyon trading post at @10am for a "mile hike" and asked his significant other to pick him up at noon. When she returned he had not returned the Agua Caliente Indian Rangers(who I might add are the best conditioned,knowlegable and motivated rescuers I know) cleared all of the trails by 9pm. The PSMP were called to assist and flew until dark without any contact. The PSMP and A.C. Rangers having cleared the trail system decided to resume the search at 0600. (rescue teams do not go off trail at night unless they have some info as to where the victim might be;to send rescuers randomly off trail in every direction is a very irresponsible action to take). This man as it turns out hiked the fern canyon and took a side trail, left the side trail by some 75 feet, set his pack down, took a few steps on a grade not as steep as my driveway, and fell to his death. He never moved after the initial fall. Estimated time of death was before noon. We will never know(since he was alone and contrary to TV CSI no coroner can tell you definetley one way or the other) Which came first, the fall or the ill effects from the heat? We will never know. To set the record straight, he was not climbing up Fern Canyon,crawling over DO NOT ENTER signs. He was slightly off the main trail. Moral of the story: do not hike alone, do not go off trail, do not hike in tempertures over 90 degees(why not buy the PS Tramway Summer Pass for $60 and hike in mid 70 temps?)and watch your steps on trail and especially when you take even one step off the trail you are in danger. As far as the two bodies this past Sunday the coroner is still working but I am confident the coroner will find that the hiker fell and died immediatley. (very unlikley he ever called for help). He was on a goat trail below lyken and half mile above the PS Tennis Club. Whether he was off trail by accident or attempted an off trail more direct route we will never know. He was alone at the time. He was hiking with one other person and they split up at @2200ft at around 6:45 am on Sat. PSMP was called after 7:00pm. We had very little to go on and the lower part of the trail had beed hiked and cleared that evening(as it turns out he could not have been seen from the main trail or the goat trail, even in the day time). All facts lead to the conclusion that this hiker had passed before 9:00am Sat. SAR resuers would have been risking their lives at night, off trail for someone who was already gone. Moral of the story: do not hike alone, do not leave your partner, do not hike off trail, notify someone of your return time and if thay have not made contact they should call 911. Maybe there will be an exception in the future but in over 5 years of SAR, every body recovery had no partner at the time of death. Everyone please be safe, be smart and do not take unnecessary risks.

Hiking alone is not the reason for these deaths. Thousands of people hike alone without mishap and groups often run into trouble. Is it safer to hike with others? Perhaps but hiking alone is not a precursor to death or injury.

(Edit) Also, the three hikers rescued in the Mecca Hills were perhaps just a little luckier but hiking in a group in dangerous conditions does not preclude the need for rescue

[Perry]

Thanks ntheno for all the work you do. It sounds like you guys know what you're doing.

I don't know if I would support "no regulation" if the number of deaths and rescues got out of hand. If the trails were "closed" in the summer but not strictly enforced that might not be a bad idea.

I really think that elevation signs and mile markers would persuade some people to turn around on Skyline. Nobody likes to be told what to do, but they would draw their own conclusions. The first time is deceiving. When you see the tram it looks like you're almost there but you're not.

I added a big heat warning on the Skyline intro page and main menu.

Doing Skyline in the summer really takes a lot of careful preparations. There are several factors involved and you can't make a mistake. Zip has it down. He knows what he's doing, but I think most hikers are in for an unpleasant near-death experience. And I have to agree with Hal that the other summer options are way better than Skyline.

[ntheno]

With regard to did hiking alone cause these deaths the answer is no. In fact Idon't believe that I have even been on one rescue where there was simply ONE cause. It always seems to be a cluster of poor decisions, multiple links in a chain, all connected and dependent on eachother to lead to disaster. We have done many RESCUES with groups of hikers. I have seen many people hiking with a group make some very poor decisions and end up in need of rescue. We do what we do with no malice toward those unfortunate people that are in need. I will continue to say that one common link in every BODY RECOVERY chain has been they were alone. Please consider the risk that hiking alone puts the rescue team in when they are searching for you, if you are injured or unconscious,who calls us with your location? This adds risk, crucial time, man power and financial cost to your rescue. I understand that hundreds of thousands of people hike alone without incident every year(thank God). Obviously nothing I say here is going to change that, but if you choose to hike alone then,I emplore you, do EVERTHING else right! More than adequate fluids, GPS, cellphone, notify a second party of your route and ETA and if you are not back and can't be reached they shoul call 911 immediatley.If you have a Blackbeery, Iphone, or other smart phone you can download free application called GPS Tracker and anyone you choose can track your location, elevation and speed.(my wife loves to keep an eye on me during rescues,in fact once she texted me, asking me if I was taking a leak and I was, Scary!) It sounds like most on this forum know what they're doing and I'm pleased to see it. Stay Safe and God be with you all.

[Zé]

ntheno thanks for the details. I really appreciate all SAR and volunteers who are out there helping us all out.

And I mean all of of us. The ignorant, the conscientious, the risk-takers, the prudent...

Let's realize that any one of us could end up needing a rescue, no matter how prepared or prudent you are. Sure, the ignorant and risk-takers are more likely to run into problems, but nothing is black and white.

We'd like to just scold those that are ignorant (i.e. hiking in this weather without being prepared), but how are you going to weed out those people and not the ones who are just well prepared risk takers? How can you regulate something that's not even an officially recognized trail? How much money does that cost?

I'd like to see more signs, as that equals more awareness. And cost-effective. And doesn't prevent otherwise prepared individuals from doing what they want to do.

I understand from the SAR point of view that they don't want anyone taking any risks at all, but part of human nature (well some of us ) like to explore off the trail, in the remote areas. If I break my ankle hiking down an unknown ridge, or hiking down a well-used trail, and need to be lifted out in either case, am I judged differently? Are the 'fines' going to be different?

Anyways this stuff always brings up philosophical questions and all the gray areas. I'm just thankful that our society has some sort of 'safety net' for these things, even if I never expect to have to use it.

[asabat]

I recall seeing several eye-catching signs at the South Rim of Grand Canyon. One about heat and dehydration shows a hiker on all fours graphically puking on the trail. Another tells the story of a female marathoner who died on the trail. These are large and to the point - maybe someone would still ignore them, or maybe So Cal would just cover them with grafitti.

[pdforeme]

The learning for me on this particular hike...and not sure how to convey, .....the intensity of hiking heat when official temp is say "only" 100F.....added to (here's big one on this hike).....you need to have a "go back" decision point....(poor analogy, like Astronauts to the moon)....at some point around 6am on a hot day, any later in the day you CANNOT turn around because if you move slowly, you will descend into deadly heat....

I had bet on hiking up out of the heat, plus a fast partner. We barely realized at 730 am we had better haul a** downhill to "beat the heat"....but slow partner meant we descended into 100. And 100 under the trees at home is sweet, but not out on the rocks...

[Cy Kaicener]

ntheno - thanks for everything you did and for clarifying many of the details.
Efforts to ID the dead hikers continues. You cant get proper fingerprints until they have been rehydrated.
http://mydesert.com/article/20090722/NE ... +continues
It seems strange that they had no ID on them.

[zippetydude]

Zip has it down. He knows what he's doing, but I think most hikers are in for an unpleasant near-death experience. And I have to agree with Hal that the other summer options are way better than Skyline.

Well, I only sorta know what I'm doing! But, I'm cautious (aka a big chicken) and have back-up systems to keep me alive if something unexpected happens. That's the critical element that makes all the difference.

1) Before I ever did a full Skyline, I did up-and-back trips until I knew the route up to 7 miles, each time adding to caches of water along the way.

2) On my first trip up Skyline all the way, I went on a busy Saturday in October, and was glad I did: I got off trail above Flatrock twice, stopped immediately once I couldn't see the trail, and simply waited until Cynthia, and later Andy passed by and could give me guidance.

3) Before doing a full summer Skyline trip, I experimented with a Misty Mate (handheld misting thingy) and found it could keep me cool at temps above 100 degrees in the sun. In case it broke, I tried poking holes in the caps of water bottles and using them as substitute devices. This works too, but wastes a lot of water, so I had to add to my caches.

4) I researched the adiabatic lapse rate (the rate at which the temperature drops as you gain altitude) and calculated that along with my rate of ascent, then picked the time of day to start (5:00 a.m. for my particular pace, it would be different for a different pace) that would keep me at the coolest possible temps throughout the whole trip.

5) I brought a cell phone and PLB anyway, just in case of rattler bite or broken ankle...

If everyone were as chicken as me, I wouldn't worry about deaths on Skyline. I can't say anything bad about their taking chances - it's their own life and their own choice, but I hate to see them pay the ultimate price for an error in judgment. Let's hear it for chickens!

z

[physicslord]

Perry:

Are you going to move the C2C site when Geocities shuts down later this year?

I had to move my whole website to another hosting service.