Yet another rescue of Skyline

[Hikin_Jim]

Hike with a partner if the risks are high and don't abandon him/her for the sake of summiting.

Here, here.

[magikwalt]

HikerHal and I sometimes see issues from different perspectives but we agree that being a Hike Leader has its responsibilities. This guy Udi didn't fulfill his and that's not an opinion its a fact.

I think the ODC should take his planned hikes down off the calendar until he can show an understanding of what those responsibilites are and that he can execute them.

Now that all the "facts" have come out I think its time for the rope. His hiking skills are deminished by an overblown ego and total disregard for his fellow humans. He hiked on and allowed a potential tragedy to unfold below him.

Offering to go back down with the rescue team??? Why wasn't he enroute as soon as he heard there was a problem? He had 5 hours to stop the disaster and didn't. Now that S&R are involved he wants to help? His bragging post was 5:30 hours to the tram. If that's the case then why didn't he just hike down earlier to help?

ODC Hikers should know that if Udi is your Hike Leader then expect to be left because he's more worried about his enjoyment than your safety! Its as important to a hiker to know something about the Hike Leader. Maybe ODC should post a warning notice behind Hike Leaders showing number of assisted rescues required during their previous hikes.

It must be quite a rush to drink that Bacardi 151 while someone in your group is going through heat exhaustion back at Flat Rock. I'm sure Udi is a good guy but he sure as hell not a good Hike Leader! His caring for those following him started way to late and smells way too much like covering his ass.

I relay more than the above directly to his blog: http://www.outdoorsclub.org/forum/displ ... Position=1

Sorry Cynthia, but I couldn't wait any longer.

[Cy Kaicener]

The best thing the ODC can do is require all leaders to have a sweep ie someone who has done it before and will be the last person to stay behind the stragglers. Every trip has a fast and a slow group.

[AlanK]

I have been on a number of group hikes and agree that at least some of them end up becoming separated into faster and slower groups. There is nothing wrong with that. If everyone knows the area and agrees to the divisions into sub-groups, there should be no problem.

However, a group or hike leader has some basic responsibilities. Leaving stragglers unfamiliar with the route to rush up Skyline is criminally negligent. Cy is right in saying that a sweep could eliminate that problem. In the absence of such a person, the leader should stay with the slowest people.

There is nothing wrong with fast hiking. But when I'm in a hurry, I go alone, with a fast partner, or with a fast group. If I go with a random group I'm not familiar with, I just plan to not be in a hurry. It's not that complicated!

[HikeUp]

The hike leader's comment on ODC...

I have spoke to the rescue team before they went down the trail and offered them to joined them (I have never hiked down this trail,and thought that it would be a great opportunity to do it and helping to find my fellow hikers).kindley,the rangers have declined my offer saying that this is their job and all I can do is just sit and wait.

(my emphasis)

The opportunity to do something new for himself came before the opportunity to help find his fellow hikers? Says it all doesn't it?

[AlanK]

That's what's strange to me. Why lead a hike if you want to just go by yourself. There is no barrier to just hiking alone. If you lead, you are taking on the responsibility of seeing that the group makes it. That may involve splitting the group, etc., but it does not mean just wandering along in your own world.

[Hikin_Jim]

ODC is a relatively new group. I wonder if it wouldn't be helpful for them to publish some standards:

-keep the group together
-keep track of your people
-have a sweep

something like that; just some basics. From what I've heard it doesn't sound like they have any defined qualifications for a hike leader or standards for that leader on a hike.

[halhiker]

The impossible task of being two places at once led me to quit leading groups on this trail. On many of my easier hikes I would keep the group together or run from the front to the back and check on people. This is not possible on Skyline. With a group it's possible to have people capable of doing the hike in less than five hours and others taking over ten. I would never take a large group on this trail and I will continue to actively discourage such outings.
I'm glad it turned out OK in the end because it could have been much worse.
It's tough for me to blame the hike leader except for choosing to take a group on this hike to begin with.

Hal

[guest]

The latest post of the ODC thread brings some interesting info regarding this club. One thing that has not been discussed much, which is not meant to immunize the "organizer", is that those that chose to go on this hike need to bear some blame for attempting this hike in these conditions with their limited experience.

Here's what ODC site has under the following heading:
Coordinating & posting activities:

What are my responsibilities as an activity coordinator?
Find out as much as reasonably possible about the activity, location, possible weather conditions, etc. Then communicate via the activity description, email, or the Message Board what members can expect and what they should bring.
Take precautions about keeping people from getting lost on hikes too.

Have the person(s) in front of the group wait at every trail intersection.

This will keep people from taking a wrong turn and wandering off. Have other activity participants help out if necessary. Also, helping to facilitate carpools as an activity coordinator is good for our environment.

ss

[AlanK]

ss -- I agree that the Outdoors Club is a loose organization. If you go on a hike with strangers you meet on the Internet, and I have done that several times, everyone has responsibility.

I have encountered Outdoors Club hikers in the past and never saw a problem. In fact, in doing the SGW 9 Peaks hike a little over a week ago, we hiked with an Outdoors Club group for quite a while. They were just great. It was clear that they didn't necessarily know each other prior to the hike, but they appeared to be having a great group hike. Of course, they all had a fair amount of experience, otherwise they had no business attempting a 29 mile day hike. Anyone doing Skyline should have a lot of experience as well.