Time to "FIX" the Skyline "trail"

[Rick M]

Looks like semantics win. “They are not really trails, i.e. maintained, but they maintained merely by the passing of hikers upon the ground.” I live on a dirt road not maintained by the county but it’s still a road from the usage. I haven’t been climbing on Whitney since the 80’s (too crowded and give others a chance) but the trail up Lone Pine Creek is access for a lot of things (Lower & Upper Boy Scout Lakes, Mount Carillon and Russell, Day and Keller Needles in addition to the Whitney climbing routes. Boy, is this getting off topic. I give up.

[Cy Kaicener]

Rick - Skyline did indeed require route finding in the 60's. Sid Davis of the Sierra Club took me up there the first time on a scheduled trip, and all he needed was a map and compass. We climbed through bushes and manzanita and went up the wrong chute before Coffman's Crag. Now it is like a freeway in comparison except for the last 1000 feet. We appreciate having you on the rescue team.

[Rick M]

Thanks Cy,
I guess I don't give up since I can't sleep. I went up the Skyline in the early 70s and remember some route finding back then too. I don't know about the "general consensus" but I don't believe the State Park is going to want to invest any money especially if, as someone on this list has stated, they want to close down this park. My experience with the government agencies that run parks is they love volunteers and with all the people on this site, I'm sure a few fun trail crews/outings could be organized either through the park or perhaps the Sierra Club or maybe even be "sponsored" by the Mt. San Jacinto Outdoor Recreation Forum.

I don't see a trail like the one in Long Valley and certainly not a continuous regulation trail from the museum but simply something to help hikers in the area between 7,000' and the top. In looking at the tracks of how a hiker who was killed a few years ago went the wrong way, it would have taken two or three people a few hours to have delineated the way to go on the "trail". Not a lot of effort to have saved a life or one in the future. There are other things that could also be done fairly easily to this "trail". And with the numbers of people that are now using this "trail" their use of it will be the upkeep (I'm one of those hikers that will slide a rock off a trail with my foot rather than step over or around it and maybe save someone a sprained ankle later on).

Whatever it is should have the approval of the Park and as I mentioned, they like volunteers (little or no cost to them).

[halhiker]

I guess the difference in my mind is that a "trail" is official and maintained and a "route" is unofficial and not maintained.

The End.

[AlanK]

I guess the difference in my mind is that a "trail" is official and maintained and a "route" is unofficial and not maintained.

This seems like a good definition and I am not sure that anyone here disagrees at this point. If I understand what Rick M is after, he just wants to have the top 1000' or so of the route marked sufficiently clearly that first-timers can find their way up. He thinks that would save lives, or at least reduce the number of rescues. Makes sense to me! If there was agreement on this, I would be happy to participate in a volunteer party sometime, especially if the aftermath involved a second volunteer party in the bar at the tram station.

[Hikin_Jim]

Just for everyone's reference, this is what the current warning sign on the Skyline "trail" says:

SKYLINE RIDGE CROSS-COUNTRY ROUTE

CAUTION

Before continuing further, please consider your prepardness for undertaking
this hike. There have been fatalities & many rescues of injured & lost persons
attempting to complete this extremely difficult route!

10 STEEP MILES / 7000 FEET ELEVATION GAIN
TEMPERATURES RANGING FROM 120 F TO -12F
8 TO 12 HOURS STRENUOUS CLIMBING

NO WATER

RATTLESNAKES, LOOSE ROCKS & DIRT, BRUSH, SCORPIONS, TICKS
ROUTE DISAPPEARS & IS DIFFICULT TO FOLLOW

Persons who needed to be rescued or have died
attempting this route have lacked some of the following:

1 1/2 gallons of water
SOMEONE WHO KNOWS THE ROUTE
Good hiking boots .................... Matches
First Aid Kit .............................. Extra Food & Water
Map & Compass ....................... Sun Glasses
Knife ....................................... Sun Screen
Extra Clothing .......................... Gloves
Candle .................................... Flashlight / Extra Bulb & Batteries
Whistle ................................... Space Blanket

DON'T BE NEXT! KNOW YOUR LIMITATIONS! BE PREPARED!
Palm Springs Mounted Police Search & Rescue

SIGN COURTESY OF P.O.S.T. PARKS, OPEN SPACE & TRAILS FOUNDATION

[asabat]

I was surprised by the number and contents of the signs on the trail. That said, I'm not surprised many people probably ignore them. Consider the number of signs at the Grand Canyon, with graphics of hikers heaving their lunch and photos of marathon runners who died, and they still are always rescuing people.

Personally, didn't find the trail/route that difficult the first time up, and I'm not in that good of shape, but do have much better than most navigation skills. I followed Cy about half way, then moved up on my own. This was with no snow on the ground though.

I don't think signs do much other than maybe let the agency say "told you so." I'm not sure what else can be done. I am always amazed at how little some people carry - I think the extreme sports attitude makes this look like another conquest instead of a wilderness hike that really requires some preparedness. Just don't close me out!

[Cy Kaicener]

When I want to find out the latest snow conditions I take the tram up the day before and check out the top of Skyline from Long Valley. Doreen and I have been going half way up on Saturdays with different people from the message board and try and talk hikers out of going up to the tram in these conditions. If we cant, we tell them what equipment we think they would need. The last 1000 feet of Skyline are difficult to follow without snow. With snow and ice its a nightmare.

[igloo builder]

The info on the Warning sign has no mention of SNOW or ICE as hazards and nothing about CRAMPONS or ICE AXE for equipment. Perhaps in the old days, not many people tried it durning these conditions or the Posse doesn't come up this high. Perhaps things change and people are now doing it in different times of the year and with greater frequency.

Also, as for the semantics of trail or route, if in fact many believe that a trail means maintained and a route is not then when speaking about the Skyline or C2C you need to use the term "cross-country route" so as to not give the idea that it is a "trail".

[Andy]

I'm curious, would blaze markers like the classic tree marks or snow poles like the kind the road dept uses help better designate the safest route at higher elevation?