Trip Report Friday, May 30th, Humber Park to SJ Summit

[Ken7]

I think it is worth getting a permit for three main reasons. One is that if there is a fire or other disaster, the permits let the fire fighters have some idea who is in the wilderness and where they are. That potentially increases a hiker's chance of survival. Another is that the permits are the way that the USFS fulfills its responsibility to manage the wilderness that Congress gave it when Congress enacted the Wilderness Act. The permits are part of the system the forest service uses to keep the wilderness untrammeled and a place of solitude. By getting a permit we are, in that sense, helping to preserve the place we love. The third reason is that there are potential fines for not having a permit, while the permits themselves are free. Whether or not a ranger issues a citation, it is stressful to be caught without a permit and such encounters can adversely affect one's feelings for a while. They cause negative feelings that one typically goes to the wilderness to escape or overcome.

[FIGHT ON]

Permits? Bah.

HikeUp is funny!

"Any issues getting a permit at the Idyllwild Ranger Station and did you see a ranger on the trail?"

"We had originally intended to hike Mt. SJ but changed plans at the last minute to Cucamonga. The Ranger station in Baldy Village was closed when we went by in the AM and the permits for the Cucamonga Wilderness are not self-issue. That's why we had no permit. Rolling Eyes"

Dude! You're supposed to get a permit before you go up there! Doesn't matter if a ranger is there or not.

[Hikin_Jim]

Well, let's give JayO a bit of a break shall we, FIGHTON? I'm not doctrinaire about it, but I do encourage people to stay within the system. I understand changes due to wx, unexpected conditions, injury, AMS, etc.

I've violated my permit due to heavy snow before -- couldn't cross a pass when I was already a couple of days in on a Sierra BP and had to bypass through an area I had no permit for. My ride was picking me up in a specific location, and I thought it was justified. The ranger checked my permit, and he, thankfully, agreed that my detour was OK. We all know "stuff happens," but I try to stay within the permit system unless it's really a neccessity not to.

[FIGHT ON]

I don't see the violation as being similar HikingJim.

[Hikin_Jim]

I was trying to be respectful, FO. As my mother once said, "you catch more butterflies with honey than with vinegar." Or if you prefer, "a soft word turneth away wrath," which is from Proverbs I believe.

[FIGHT ON]

HJ. I thought you gave your violation as a similar comparison to justify his reason for going on hikes w/o permits. I see them as being very different.

[JayO]

Hiked up to SJ Peak from Humber Park yesterday - hardly any snow left, a beautiful day. And let me be very clear - we did stop and self-issue a permit. It is my normal habit - except in the rare case its just not feasible.

[FIGHT ON]

Hiked up to SJ Peak from Humber Park yesterday - hardly any snow left, a beautiful day. And let me be very clear - we did stop and self-issue a permit. It is my normal habit - except in the rare case its just not feasible.

Hey JayO. Could you please continue to be very clear and define "except in the rare cases its just not feasible"?
Thanks

[JayO]

I've already done that and now I'm moving on. Maybe you should do the same.

[AlanK]

OK. JayO posted this on the Cucamonga Peak thread on June 1.

We had originally intended to hike Mt. SJ but changed plans at the last minute to Cucamonga. The Ranger station in Baldy Village was closed when we went by in the AM and the permits for the Cucamonga Wilderness are not self-issue. That's why we had no permit. Rolling Eyes

I believe that what he said is "very clear and define" and that the need to beat the matter to death is non-existent. He made what we term a "judgment call."

It would be really great if the various agencies that control access to wilderness areas entered the 20th century before the 21st is over. People are supposed to learn by ESP where permits are required and then every fiefdom handles permit issue differently. I don't think we need to call the US Attorney's office about Jay's case because he acted reasonably in an unreasonable situation.

The first time I did the Baldy 6 Peaks Loop, I had no idea that permits were required for the Cucamonga Wilderness. My son and I had hiked from Ice House down to the Village, up the Bear Flat Trail, hit West Baldy, Baldy, and Harwood, descended to the Notch, then headed up Thunder. After leaving that peak, we encountered a sign telling us that we needed permits to continue. This was in the middle of nowhere. Let me be very clear and definite: Getting a permit was not feasible at that point. We continued anyway.

So, go after Jay. Try to hound him to an early grave. Go after us too. I'll give you dates and pictures.