Pink Plastic Ribbons on Skline. UGH!!!

[DancesWithTheMountains]

I love all of you!!!! These comments are great!!! I think whoever did it is probably reading these comments and doesn't
dare admit to doing the deed. I cannot believe anyone would say that some of the ribbons used are environmentally friendly!!! That made me
laugh so hard I almost feel out of my chair. People will use any excuse to justify their bad behavior. Thank you all for commenting
and it is so good to hear from you Ellen and Cynthia. Lets hope that these non hikers that don't know how to read a trail, stay off of
skyline. I think we have all had enough of them.
Happy Trails to all
Doreen

[hiiker]

Biodegradable ribbon does exist so stop your laughing;

http://www.gofastandlight.com/Biodegrad ... U-BIOTAPE/

The trail gets more and more popular every year. Maybe if there was a well marked trail people wouldn't have to mark the way for others. Think about it, have you ever seen this type of behavior on any other trail you've hiked/climbed? I sure haven't.

[cynthia23]

No, there's no justification for this behavior. It's badly mistaken. It's literally impossible to get lost on Skyline. All the shortcuts and routes lead up. If you follow the trail--any trail--you'll get to the top. The single and only point where one can go astray is when the Desert Museum trail crosses the Ramon trail. A few people have unintentionally strayed onto the Ramon trail and headed downhill, but they soon realize their mistake. Otherwise, it's pretty simple: go up. And if that seems too scary, there are a gazillion GPS routes easily and readily available.

People get in trouble on Skyline because of lack of conditioning, heat exhaustion, or falling on the ice--not getting lost. In all the years I've been following Skyline rescues, there has never ever been a rescue due to somebody getting 'lost'. Not one. Sure, people wander a bit during the Desert Museum stretch and don't go as fast as they could if they knew the trail, but that's not getting 'lost'. They just lose a little time. It's irritating, not life-threatening. The only place there is ever a serious concern about route-finding is at the very top in the traverses where if you take the wrong chute you end up in technical cliffs--but even that is no longer much of a concern because the route has gotten so beaten in.

We have had this discussion before, when people who have never done Skyline before and who are not locals, self-importantly try to 'mark' the trail by doing things like spray painting marks, etc. In their overheated imagination, they're wilderness explorers who are opening up a never-before traveled route for others. They need to get a clue: they're not Lewis and Clark. In reality this is a heavily used urban interface trail that does not need one more piece of garbage piled on it. And since the people who mark the trail are all novices, they mark all the wrong things, anyway--half the time they mark shortcuts and don't even notice the 'real' trail. These marker episode greatly upset the regular users of the trail and everyone who cares about it, and creates a tedious mess that other people have to clean up. Even if the ribbons are 'biodegradable', that won't happen for a very long time--even years-- in the super dry climate of Skyline, and in the meantime, people have to look at dozens of pieces of ugly pink plastic. Whoever did this made a foolish mistake and will have to cope with some very upset people if caught doing it again.

[cynthia23]

Oops, I meant to add: though the markers are silly and useless trash, it's probably true that the chaos of all the shortcuts is adding a sense of justification to these 'marker people'--that is, increasing their sense that they 'need' to mark the trail. And I certainly agree that the ultimate and only solution is to have an officially marked trail.

[Ed]

The single and only point where one can go astray is when the Desert Museum trail crosses the Ramon trail. A few people have unintentionally strayed onto the Ramon trail and headed downhill, but they soon realize their mistake.

Like me. And second time up. Well, route finding was not my strong point even in my prime.

I think some people simply want to mark their passage, and are looking for an excuse to do it. It gives them a 'the Pathfinder is in charge here' high.

[DancesWithTheMountains]

I had to comment about the person who thinks that maybe people are marking the trail because its hard to follow. First of all, I have been on this trail for over
10 years when it was only people like Scott, Andy, myself and a few others. The trail was never a problem. Once everyone found out about this trail, that's when
the problems started. Hiking leaders, taking 10 or more up the trail, started going off trail and then those hikers learned to cut the trail and then they would take
10 or more hikers up and before you knew it, the original trail was destroyed. Other trails have permits and are controlled by Rangers. This trail has never been in that
category. Maybe that's what's needed here. Its only a matter of time before this has to happen and the time is now upon us. When I turn around on those days that
I cannot go all the way, I am amazed at the mess people make from the parking lot to the benches. You have people coming up in every direction, people with dogs unleashed
and kids jumping all over the trails and sliding down whatever path looks good. If this was done with permit only or if people were being charged to use the trail, like in the
Indian Canyons, we wouldn't see this happening. I know a lot of you don't want to see this happen, but, I fear its the only way we are going to protect this treasure we
call Skyline. Thank you Cynthia for your comments. You were right on!
Happy Trails
Doreen

[cynthia23]

Yes, reluctantly I have to agree with you Doreen. The only solution for this trail, now, is some kind of official body controlling access to it, and rather strictly controlling it, at that. The situation is spiraling out of control, and will get much worse once downtown development is completed. That's another topic and I'm going to post it as such.

[Wildhorse]

The problem is how to control it.

The USFS wilderness permit system is designed to monitor usage, inform users of the rules, and, in limited cases, to reduce usage (e.g., limiting Devil Slide permits on summer weekends.) It is a porous system. Many hikers skip the permits and ignore the rules.

Joshua Tree charges for admission, but noncompliance abounds. I have seen ribbons misused in Joshua Tree.

Yellowstone and Yosemite are heavily policed. The abuse of the land is overwhelming still.

The Tribe has been successful through a high fee and close ranger/police supervision at Tahquitz Canyon. No one could call that wilderness as a result. Beautiful, maybe. Wilderness, no.

Baxter State Park in Maine tries harder than anyone. It is protected as much as a place can be protected. It is not wilderness as a result.

What we need is better birth control. The human herd devours land like locusts.

[cynthia23]

Well, I'm all for better birth control, Ken. But to take an 'on the other hand' tack, I do think there is value in allowing even clueless and destructive hikers access to trails, because (studies show) people who've had some kind of outdoor or wilderness experience, even if it's only a few times, are much more likely to vote to protect it. I also think that sometimes, clueless and casual hikers turn into more careful and serious ones. In my view, the real threats to wilderness come from development and fossil fuels. The pink plastic ribbons are upsetting, but small potatoes compared to what global warming can and will do to these mountains. So ultimately, I don't want to restrict people's access to wilderness too much, even when they're jerks.

It's certainly true that, barring the employment of a dozen guards who patrolled up and down Skyline 24/7, there's no real way to stop people from going up SKyline whenever they want. However, I don't think it's necessary to stop every errant hiker--just control them more. Continuing with the 'herd' metaphor--I think only some general 'shepherding' of the crowd is in order. Permits would be annoying, but it would be a possible way to regain some control. Also, as I mentioned in my other post, I think it's necessary for some entity, either public or private, to take 'ownership' of the trail and indicate to users that someone is in control. I think part of the disrespect hikers are showing on Skyline--i.e. massive shortcutting, litter, graffiti, trail-markers-- is because they don't see anybody in charge.

Like almost everything, it all boils down to money. A permit system and rangers patrolling would solve or at least control the problem, but would certainly cost a fair bit of money, and as we know, the state parks are hurting financially. I don't know how the BLM's finances are, but I doubt they're rolling in money either. Of course, I think the money would be well spent, but unfortunately, our legislators don't seem to agree.

[neverwashasbeen]

I'm glad the ribbons have been cleaned up, but has anyone else noticed some lights on the mountain the last few nights?