Colored lights on skyline?

[Hikin_Jim]

Before anyone suggests the State Park as the Salvation of Skyline, I'd like to respectfully ask that they go to the west side and take a hard look at the Deer Springs Camp area.

What's that? Deer Springs Camp has been closed for decades?

Uh, well, closed to you and I in the name of letting a sensitive area recover, but not closed if you're a state employee. And just how's that working out?

Well, terraces carved into the mountainside, logs used to build level areas, "furniture" created out of materials taken from the forest, a urinal a mere dozen feet from the creek bed, pipes put into the water from Deer Springs to provide drinking water, camp sites set up mere feet from the stream, multiple wood fire pits, some quite large, trash, equipment left year-to-year, some of which has mouldered and been abandoned in place, dozens if not hundreds of metal and plastic markers emplaced, and to top it all off, multiple trails constructed or worn into the landscape, some right across meadowy areas.

And of course there's the use of mechanical mules in and around Round Valley and the mechanized "restoration" of the meadow in Round Valley.

I'm just not so sure putting the state park service in charge of Skyline is going to work out all that well. I'm not saying everything is hunky dory, but things can be made worse. Just sayin'.

HJ

[Rick F]

I know it's an unrealistic expectation but we, i.e. society, should be respectful of all public land and private property whether its wilderness, a museum or a bar.

I work in the construction industry and it appalls me that seemingly responsible, skilled craft workers, throw everything on the ground, packaging, trimmings, lunch trash, etc. And they leave it there assuming someone else will clean it up.

I'm trying to teach my kids that leave-no-trace starts at home and extends all the way to the wilderness.

[bluerail]

btw, they are giving out warnings at the museum for parking there again.

[Florian]

I know it's an unrealistic expectation but we, i.e. society, should be respectful of all public land and private property whether its wilderness, a museum or a bar.

Rick, that's exactly it. Public/private or yours/mine, doesn't make a difference. I wish more people understood this.

-Florian

[cynthia23]

Thanks for the warning bluerail. Maybe because of the film festival?

I do see the sloppiness of the state employees and contractors who work in the state park, but that's a very different issue from uncontrolled 24-7 access to anybody and everybody without any limits or policing, which is the Skyline situation. In the State Park, you don't see graffiti, ever increasing and eroding shortcuts, or somebody's so-cute Xmas tree decorations (altho admittedly, you do see trash in Long Valley. One time in the spring after the snowmelt the kids and I spent an afternoon picking it up and boy did we find some weird stuff!)

I would analogize all of this to the 'broken windows' theory of urban crime (wiki it) which is that allowing a little bit of criminal disorder into a setting, like a broken window or bit of graffiti, has a 'signaling' effect in which people feel no one is in charge, and the broken windows and graffiti increase, and then gradually escalate to burglaries and muggings. I really think something similar is happening on Skyline, in the sense that people feel more and more emboldened to basically do whatever the hell they want to the terrain. I don't think it's a coincidence that people have literally started shitting on the trail.

We could moralize all day about how people should do this or that, but realistically, the only thing likely to motivate better behavior on Skyline is the possibility of getting a large fine from somebody with some kind of badge. State park doesn't actually WANT Skyline--too much trouble--and probably the feds don't either. I think we ought to deputize somebody--just like in an old western.

Anybody want to be Sheriff of Skyline?

Yeah, me neither. But I'm liking HJ for the job

[zippetydude]

Back to the lights...are they still there? I wouldn't mind it as a joke for a day or two, but leaving them to decay? Dumb.

Incidentally, I had the impression that bluerail's comment about 10 miles long and a bar at the top was rather facetious, not implying that he condones using Skyline as a dumpster. He's probably carried more trash off that mountain than everyone else here combined.

I agree with HJ. I'm afraid Skyline is safer with less "official" help. Want to be forced to start after 9:00, get a permit in advance, only to find that it is fully open to others who have no such requirements because they happen to work for the government/tribe? No.

As a community we're probably doing the best reasonably possible job taking care of the problems. (Maybe I should exempt myself, I've been doing other trails and adventures for the past few months).

In any case, the lights might have been a fun idea to start with, but like any other Christmas lights, it's January. Time for them to come down.

z

[bluerail]

theres a few regulars that are always hauling out trash, i just dont understand how ANYBODY walks by trash or empty bottles and just leaves it. and that would be the larger percentage of people. there are actually people that empty the bottles that are in the boxes or bucket, and then they leave the empty bottles there!! What people that hike think like that.

and the people that crap on the trail? wtf are they thinking?

[climbant]

I've been finding a lot of empty alcohol and beer bottles lately. Who packs a 750 bottle of tequila miles into the wilderness, pounds it and leaves the bottle? Oh and don't get me started on sucker sticks. Come on.

[Ellen]

Howdy All

Heading up tomorrow with the Craigmeister and other friends around 6 AM. We'll try to pack out colored lights, bottles, cans, etc. I draw the line at packing out biohazard trash.

Thanks to Speedy Steve, Saint Florian, Climbant, Cynthia and everyone else who has packed trash off Skyline and tried to eliminate those obnoxious orange dots and other graffiti.

I actually haven't been on Skyline or San Jacinto in two weeks -- oh the horror Looking forward to coming home

Miles of smiles,
Ellen

[Hikin_Jim]

I actually haven't been on Skyline or San Jacinto in two weeks

It's that danged obsession with Falling Rock Canyon, Dobbs, and Register Ridge that I keep warning you about.

HJ