Trail 4E03 Below Live Oak Springs

[The Ghost]

Hal -- Sorry I exposed your secret place but if I remember right you have posted that you not been up there for 20 years. Have tried to be as non specific as possible in my descriptions as I cherish this area as much as you do.

Jim -- Kathy's approach from the PCT to Butterfly Peak is the same way we took to Live Oak Springs and beyond (from the opposite direction). To be specific there is connector trail from New Hemet Mine to the Tunnel Springs road/trail, it is known and signed as the Prospector Trail.

Kathy -- Take a look at the Acme Map and notice the trail leaving Palm Canyon at elevation 3242. Your answer is there. No need to go any further down canyon.

I can probably be talked into being a guide for those who are tolerant of an old man and respectful of some very special places.

[Hikin_Jim]

Well, some use trails are clearer than others - I tend to accept any track (animal or human) as a use trail no matter how faint it is if it helps me get where I want to go.

My track from the hike: http://kathywing.smugmug.com/California ... vMsptVh/X3

Yeah, there were plenty of little strands of game trails twisting in and around the clumps of brush.

I was trying to post my route in my last post but some how I didn't succeed. Looks pretty similar to one of yours (you went up a bit south of the route you descended by).



HJ

[halhiker]

Ghost,
No worries. I haven't been in a while but go there in my mind often. I like your route and will try it when I get the chance. Hopefully it will be soon but until both my kids can drive, my days are spent being Dad Taxi. While the job has its rewards, it also rules out any early start times for adventures.

[Hikin_Jim]

Jim -- Kathy's approach from the PCT to Butterfly Peak is the same way we took to Live Oak Springs and beyond (from the opposite direction). To be specific there is connector trail from New Hemet Mine to the Tunnel Springs road/trail, it is known and signed as the Prospector Trail.

Hunh? Kathy's route didn't go near the New Hemet Bell. Color me confused...

Have tried to be as non specific as possible

...Oh. Now I get it.

HJ

[The Ghost]

Jim,

On your map draw a line between New Hemet Bell MIne and the prospect marker (5800 ft.) on the right hand ridge of Butterfly Peak. That is the Prospector Trail and is very easy to follow as horses and hikers use it. No it is not on the map but it is there. Have taken it numerous times in the last 3 years including following that ridge to the Summit of Butterfly.

Clear enough?

[Hikin_Jim]

Clear enough?

Definitely. We're good. Just giving you a hard time.

Lotsa interesting stuff to explore over there. I'll have to try the HPS western route, particularly since it isn't clear to me from the description where it goes.

And, lest I sound like I'm bagging on the HPS, let me say that the HPS has done a great service to the hiking public, identifying (literally) hundreds of interesting peaks and their routes. I for one respect the fact that their descriptions are brief and generally very intelligible for an experienced hiker. My own personal frustration (and I own it as such) is that I don't like it when I can't plot the route out (within reason) on a topo map. To me, I should be able to at least know which ridge I'm on. When I've got it plotted on a topo map, I feel like I know what I'm in for and can make a good judgement in terms of whether or not I can incorporate it into a particular hike.

HJ

[Hikin_Jim]

Butterfly Peak is on the Hundred Peaks List. Their directions aren't ... particularly clear...

If one were to look at the type of "scouting" I did in this thread, perhaps you'd understand my frustration with the vagueness of the HPS directions. I like to be able to plot things out pre-trip on a map. I don't need to know every last detail, but I'd like to at least know major ridges, saddles, etc. The general route in other words. I get frustrated if I can't tell which ridge it goes up from the description.

HJ

[KathyW]

I can probably be talked into being a guide for those who are tolerant of an old man and respectful of some very special places.

That is very nice of you.

I'm wondering if the chances of seeing a mountain lion are higher in that area now that they fire has damaged a big chunk of their hunting grounds.

[halhiker]

Went up yesterday and enjoyed the trail past New Hemet Bell Mine immensely. Was time limited so didn't do the whole trip but am looking forward to getting back soon.

[The Ghost]

Hal,

Glad you enjoyed the hike up above the mines. Too bad the Forest Service cleaned up all of the old relics/ruins in the area as they were fascinating at least to some of us.

By the way made a trip this week over to another favorite spot of yours... Martinez Canyon. Still one of the toughest hikes around and still remote as hell. Visited Jack's place and found that very few folks are going up there anymore which maybe is a good thing. No painted orange dots on the trail as there is no trail.

Kathy-- The only Lion activity (scat) I have noted was around Cedar Springs last year in January and possibly Live Oak a few weeks ago. The Live Oak "evidence" might have been a Bobcat. Again I am not an expert so who knows where they might be.