Wet T-Shirt Contest

[cynthia23]

re: Florian and others saying they don't like the wet cold feeling you get in cotton--I guess that is true once temps dip below the 70's. Perhaps I'm prejudiced by the fact that the majority of my hiking takes place 'down below', i.e. below 4000 feet on the lower slopes of Mt. San Jacinto and the Santa Rosas. Since daytime temps below 70 are, here, something of a rarety ninety percent of the year, my goal is almost always to bring my body temperature down, and to that end, having my clothing stay wet and cold is a plus not a minus.

But certainly it's true that above 4k or below 70 degrees, wet and cold is not a plus, and I have also experienced the big drop in body temps you get when you are hiking strenuously and suddenly stop. My solution to those problems is to carry my wool shirt with me and change into it when I stop hiking or temps drop. It's more cumbersome I suppose, but my performance is so significantly impacted if I wear polyester clothing that for me it's worth it.

That's what surprises me--I know the majority of the people on here spend more time above 4k then below, but I also know a lot of them climb up from the desert floor at high speed in fairly warm temps. Don't they/you find it incredibly uncomfortable in tight polyester shirts?? Or for that matter, even loose polyester ones?

In a moment of credulity I splurged on one of those "Solumbra" sun-blocking shirts, made of some special proprietary fabric (in other words, cotton with polyester in it), thinking that it would be okay since it was loose and white. There was a bunch of stuff on their website about how the Badwater marathoners run in them and it keeps them cool and blah blah. Big mistake, it was like wearing a Mylar balloon, I felt hot as hell. And not in a good way. I threw out the 98 dollar white polyester shirt and put back on the two dollar white cotton thrift shirt.

I saw this program on Denali climbers in which they, um, inserted thermoters into their gut. While they were climbing (in, obviously, very cold Denali weather) their core body temps spiked hugely, like something close to 106 degrees. Then the moment they stopped, the core temps dropped precipitiously. (this wild up and down is one theory for why people get mountain sickness, btw) Anyway, my point is that presumably people charging up Skyline also have very elevated core temps. Since the ambient temperature is, to say the least, not Denali-like, it seems to me the goal would always be to lower body temps to improve CV performance, since otherwise the CVS is primarily working to cool down the body. I don't get how you super-charging folks can stand wearing the tight polyester, it's got to be affecting your performance. It's like you're wearing nylons and high heels (not that there's anything WRONG with that, of course.) I maintain that at least at the lower altitudes/warmer temps, everyone's CV performance would improve in loose, all cotton clothing.

Take the thrift store challenge you hardcore plastic people, and try Skyline in a cotton muu-muu; I'm going to bet your time will improve. Any takers?

[phydeux]

You want to see folks who are adamant about wearing nothing else but polyester? Try bicyclists. Far, far worse than hikers and mountain climbers when it comes to avoiding anything other than specialty poly clothes. MTBrs are pretty forgiving (use what works for you), but the roadies here in OC are all about 'image' and brands.

I too like to wear cotton t-shirts while hiking. As you mentioned the sweat-drenched fabric helps with cooling, and long sleeves help with avoiding sunburns without needing sunblock. They also work nicely on sunny midwinter days on San J and San G (but I carry a poly as a backup in case the weather turns to crap). The only advantage I've found with poly is extremely cold conditions where you definately want to keep as little mositure next to your skin as possible.

FWIW: When I was on Denali (standard West Buttress route) I wore a cotton t-shirt up to the 11,000 ft camp. That section of the climb is on the Kahiltna Glacier and the glacier's basin turns into a 'reflector oven' on sunny days; it can feel like you're on the beach in So Calif if there are no clouds or breeze. But do keep poly around for when the weather turns crappy (and it turns crappy with a vengance really quickly up in Alaska).

[cynthia23]

I didn't know you did Denali, Phydeux. Whoa. You get my respect big-time,that's a seriously big cold hill. And I'm even more thrilled that you wore a cotton shirt to do it.

I agree with you on the horror of the roadbiking clothes--I get the need for tight and bright clothing, but why be a giant billboard for various companies, for free? That part mystifies me.

But so far I haven't heard from any pro-wool people. That too mystifies me. I love wool. It actually has the power to lift my mood and gives me a wyrd feeling of protection, a subtler version of the armored feeling one gets from wearing leather. I'm sure this is something biological and hardwired that lies deep in the reptilian core of the brain. Me wear dead animal skins, me strong? But scientifically speaking, wool is supposed to hold heat even when it's wet and have a lot of thermoregulatory qualities. So woolies, where are you? Will no one speak for wool, she baa-ed? And do we have no takers on the muu-muu challenge?

[halhiker]

I for one am in love with wool, even in warm temps. I have a very lightweight wool T-shirt that is one of my favorite hiking shirts. It was certainly not cheap but it is was worth the money. I have 3 wool merino wool shirts in three different weights and I highly recommended them. I also only wear Smartwool socks. They are the best and I've pretty much tried them all. I HATE poly socks and acrylic socks are even worse.

I do wear cotton on some hikes but I do prefer wool.

The problem I've found with polyester is that it dries too quickly and hastens dehydration. The evaporative cooling effect of the cotton or the wool actually helps on a warm day.

I don't have an intense hatred of certain polys—I actually like the Patagonia long underwear—but it's certainly my last choice when it comes to fabrics.

I really wish I had a pair of nice tropical wool hiking shorts. Maybe I'll have to see if I can find some nice wool trousers at a thrift store and see if the wife will hem them up for me.

Or maybe I could go to a kilt but that's another story.

[zippetydude]

Wool? You're serious? Wool? Ew. Maybe you're talking about the new-fangled high-tech wool, that doesn't itch and smell like a dead beast when it gets wet. But that would be in the hi-tech category, right?

As far as the tight polyester stuff, here's the inside scoop from the trailrunner point of view. It's a little uncomfortable the first few seconds after you put it on, but then it becomes unnoticeable. In the ensuing hours on the trail, it does two wonderful things. First, it fits snugly, so it doesn't slide up and down, sanding down the skin on any body parts that protrude slightly. I hadn't explained that part to my brother when he tried his first 50k run. He wore a loose fitting white cotton shirt. By 25 miles, he had two streaks of blood running down from his chest (you can guess where) and it looked creepy. people thought he had piercings or something, and it looked really strange. Snug, stretchy fabric prevents this.

Second, I have kinda fat legs, and my thighs slide back and forth across each other when I run (sorry if that's TMI!) . The chafing is totally avoided by wearing triathlon shorts.

One last benefit. As long as no one is around (I seldom hike with friends wearing only the tri shorts) I can take off my pants if I get hot and still have at least marginally acceptable shorts on.

Remember, too, that this is not your father's polyester! They make some now that's soft and fuzzy, and makes a great thermal layer when it's crazy cold.

Anyway, that's the view from the I Love the New Poly Fabric camp.

Incidentally, I do agree it's weird to have all those silly ads on the biking jerseys. Nothing strikes me as more of a contrast than seeing an obese, middle-aged man biking along with one of those jerseys as if those companies were sponsoring him just to be associated with his athletic prowess! I strictly wear plain ones so that no one looks at me and thinks the same thing!


z

[Zé]

sadly i'm a posterboy for the tight dry fit stuff. great for wicking and layering. one thin layer seems to be enough insulation in most conditions going uphill.

[halhiker]

Zip,
Most people only know the crappy, scratchy wool of Ragg Wool socks and old Pendleton shirts but good wool is soft, light and has thermal capacities that no synthetic can even get close to. It is good in warm or cold climates.

Just consider: the best suits in the world are made of wool and costs thousands of dollars. Wool can be worn several times before washing because it's extremely odor resistant. I've worn my light wool shirt out hiking for hours, brought it home, hung it up and wore it again the next day. Try that with your average polyester smell rag. Good wool is NOT scratchy. Think UGG boots would be popular if they were scratchy?

You should consider these shirts. They're pricy but if you can find one on sale they are worth every penny.

http://goo.gl/vnZoi
http://goo.gl/5tXeB

They even make Wool running shorts. They are a bit pricier than your average crap shorts made out of petroleum but they'll last longer and are odor resistant. I haven't tried them but I'd like to.

http://goo.gl/UZCKp

I love wool and plan on buying more as soon as possible.

[halhiker]

Zip,
Most people only know the crappy, scratchy wool of Ragg Wool socks and old Pendleton shirts but good wool is soft, light and has thermal capacities that no synthetic can even get close to. It is good in warm or cold climates.

Just consider: the best suits in the world are made of wool and costs thousands of dollars. Wool can be worn several times before washing because it's extremely odor resistant. I've worn my light wool shirt out hiking for hours, brought it home, hung it up and wore it again the next day. Try that with your average polyester smell rag. Good wool is NOT scratchy. Think UGG boots would be popular if they were scratchy?

You should consider these shirts. They're pricy but if you can find one on sale they are worth every penny.

http://goo.gl/vnZoi
http://goo.gl/5tXeB

They even make Wool running shorts. They are a bit pricier than your average crap shorts made out of petroleum but they'll last longer and are odor resistant. I haven't tried them but I'd like to.

http://goo.gl/UZCKp

I love wool and plan on buying more as soon as possible.

I found this article and thought it a good add to this post.
http://wp.me/pznYe-3H6

[cynthia23]

Thank you for these links, Hal. The last one was really fascinating and I urge all the trail-runners to read it. I must admit that so far I've only worn cold-weather wool (long jerseys and sweaters and socks), although I've seen the ads for the t-shirts and contemplated buying one. But I wasn't sure if it would truly feel cool in our summers. It sounds like you wear it even in very hot weather? Maybe I'll make the splurge and do it. The running shorts and tank also sound very tempting. I know that runners have 'special issues' that make loose clothing not necessarily a good fit.

I think what annoys me about the polyester sausage clothes is that I feel there's been an enormous marketing push to sell people overpriced stuff made out of petroleum based products and mostly sewn by very poor people in China. The faux-environmentalism of the Patagonia catalogues I receive (by the dozens) really irks me. Granted, alpine mountaineering requires special clothes and I'm not qualified to bitch/talk about that end of their product line, but I do think most of the hiking/trekking clothes these catalogues sell are basically just bull@@#. I mean, if you are doing the CV equivalent of hard manual labor in a hot climate, dress like the gardeners and laborers here in Palm Springs do: long-sleeved loose white shirts and loose chino pants and long brimmed hats. You don't see any of them wearing tight polyester shirts. Their clothing is functional and keeps them from getting heat stroke.

It also covers them nearly from head to toe. That's another aspect of modern 'technical clothing' that I think is anti-functional--it bares too much skin. Now before I hear too many boos .... my argument is practical not moral or aesthetic. There is indeed a time and place for nude hiking: warm moonlit nights. But during the daytime, at least in the San Jacinto range, I feel performance is compromised by having too much skin exposed. First, from the point of view of skin cancer, it's dangerous, so you have to constantly slather sunscreen on. But the oils and chemicals in sunscreen significantly inhibit the sweating process, and thus again, your body temps rise. And, more directly, having the sun hit your skin directly as opposed to being shaded by cloth, also is raising your body temps. Looking historically at how people have dealt with traveling in hot temps shows that rather than stripping down, they cover themselves with lightweight caftans and veils (i.e. Bedouins, etc.) So why are we being pushed to change from what has worked for centuries (long and loose, cotton and wool) and switch to what is vaguely described as somehow 'better' and more 'technical'--short and tight "performance clothes" (a grotesque name IMO), made out of petroleum byproducts? I wager that there is ZERO real evidence--i.e. performance trials--that these wondrous new Emperor's clothes actually improve athletic performance, and I'd be willing to bet that an actual trial would show that they actually downgrade or inhibit performance.

[Terawanderer]

I bike and hike all over southern California. I like cotton T-shirts,shorts and pants. At 3 for ten dollars...all I do is carry an extra shirt to change into if it gets cold. This rarely happens. The cooling effect is desirable. I am not a fan of free advertising or whatever......written in French all over my clothing while I bike ride. It looks strange. I have an expensive waterproof shell and pants for bad weather....cotton does not do well there. I don't go above the 14,500 foot elevation ever....so tech clothing seems unnecessary for me. My friends who have bought this type of clothing are all too happy to try to get me to buy some too....