Winter camping

[Newmountaineer]

Snow load is a concern. A three season often can't take a good dump of snow without collapsing. Some three season tents are better than others. My Sierra Designs Orion AST sheds snow pretty well.

Wind is also an issue. I've been through some pretty good wind storms at Little Round Valley and at High Meadow Spgs (in the SGW). You want something solid.

With fresh powder, having a lot of mesh is a "no go." The blowing snow will get inside. With consolidated snow, mesh is less of an issue, but mesh does not retain heat as well. On the other hand, closing every vent to retain heat sometimes backfires; you get so much condensation that you soak up your sleeping bag -- a really bad idea with down.

Be wary of single wall tents. I've had major condensation problems with my Kelty Dart I (discontinued model now I think). It's light as a dream, but it has unsolvable condensation problems in cold weather.

There are 3+season tents (extended 3 season tents) that you could check into. A little heavier than a 3 three season but not quite a four. I believe Sierra Designs makes a model and probably a couple of other manufacturers. There are also convertible tents where one can remove certain zip out panels and certain poles or segments of poles. I haven't personally tried any 3+ season or convertible tents.

Another option is to RENT a four season tent as needed. A16 rents 4 season tents as does I think REI Santa Ana. Most REI's and all Sport Chalets do NOT rent 4 season tents. I figure for the once or twice a year I really need a four season tent, I'll just rent. The things are freakin' pricey. A lot of my winter hikes I do at lower elevations (below 6000 in the San Gabriels for example), where I can use a 3 season in the "dead of winter."

From the reviews of the REI quarter dome that I've read, it seems to be a solid 3-season. It won an award in 2004 from Outside magazine. In the review it said it withstood 50mph winds with no problem on an 11,200 ft ridge in CO. I agree about single wall, I'm trying to avoid it but the REI quarter dome isn't a single wall tent. As for the mesh not keeping out the snow, won't the fly keep it out? In a few of the consumer reviews I've read, people have used it in the snow and the tent has withstood several inches of snow without a hitch, although I have yet to see anything talking about a larger dump so that would be a question mark. I think renting might be a good idea as well. I'm starting to think 3-season might be okay because I'll probably only go a couple times during the winter when things look great, weather-wise. Also, I'll probably go a lot in early spring.

[phydeux]

A tent with a completely mesh body, such as the MSR Hubba Hubba, would not be a good winter choice. However, unless your gonna play "mountain hard man" and venture out even in the face of an oncoming winter storm, something like the REI quarter dome should work well. Some mesh on the body can actually help - it lets vapor out, allowing it to condense on the rainfly, helping to avoid the morning 'snowshower' that inevitably occurs when you hit the tent body. Personally, I use and old TNF Tadpole (1993 version). Its significantly different than the current TNF model, having more floor space, more length, and it weighs less (typical of the way TNF screws up good products ). Like the REI tent, it has some mesh in the body, but it has solid fabric sidewalls that come 1/2 way up the tent body. The rainfly covers the entire tent body, too. IF you're considering the REI tent, go to a store and set it up. See if you can comfortably fit in it - most tents today seem to be made a little bit on the short side, and your feet/head might be cramped at night.

[Hikin_Jim]

Tagging on to what Phydeux said, the length is sometimes an issue with REI tents. I see the 1/4 Dome has a length of 85". That's short for a guy my size (6 footer). Yes, 85" is 7' 1", but trust me it's short. I picked up an REI Camp Dome for $25.00 at a used gear sale. I've used it for fair weather hikes. At 84", it's too short for me in my down bag. The down gets compressed.

At 52", the head end width of the 1/4 Dome is probably adequate (just adequate) for two regular sized persons. If you're heavy set or have football player shoulders or something, 52" could be pretty cramped -- especially if you're bringing winter gear. Do notice that it tapers to 43" at the foot. For comparitive purposes, a standard Thermarest is 20" wide.

In terms of wind, if it can handle 50mph on a ridge, then that's plenty of tent. Not Mountaineering or full 4 season grade, but pretty solid.

A solid three season should be able to handle a few inches of snow. A heavy "Sierra Cement" wet snow dump, say a foot or more, will often be more than a 3 season can handle.

In windy conditions, powder/spindrift will get in under the fly and sift through the mesh. A little mesh, not too bad most of the time. A lot of mesh, not so good in powder. In consolidated snow, mesh should be no problem. With respect to the 1/4 Dome, it does have a fair amount of mesh. For Winter camping, you'd have to be pretty judicious.

Overall, the 1/4 Dome sounds like a pretty good Ultra Light Three Season shelter. With the light weight come some real limits on the creature comforts. For Southern Calif, you could take some Winter trips if you really watch the weather reports. I personnally would not take such a tent into the Sierra in the Winter.

Just some (rambling) thoughts. Whatever you get ... enjoy it.

[halhiker]

If you're looking to buy a tent consider where you'll be using it most. A four-season tent should be consider a WINTER tent. They tend to be too heavy and bulky for all season use. I have a TNF VE-25 and the last times I used it was on Mount Rainier a few years ago and on Mount Logan in the Yukon seven years ago. Most of the time I use my lighter three season tent or just sleep out under the stars in a bivy.

For MSJ the only time you'll really ever need a four season tent is the few days during a winter storm. With good weather reports, you'll know when these are coming. So ask yourself, are you going to plan on camping out during storms in the winter. MSJ is not like some mountain in Alaska where you have to mount a multi-week expedition where the weather can change in an instant.

So ask yourself: Did he fire five shots....oh wait sorry, Dirty Harry flashback.... What type of camping are you going to do the most and purchase your tent accordingly. If you're going to do a lot of winter or high altitude mountaineering, get a four-season. If not, go three-season and if you go out in winter occasionally, you can probably rent at first or find a buddy who's better outfitted.

Hal

[Rob]

Do tent prices drop at any particular time of the year, or are prices stable year-round?

REI web site lists tents that have no fire retardant and can't be shipped to California. Should I ignore those?

Hammocks get good reviews. Realistically are they for SoCal summer only?

[magikwalt]

I followed this thread from the start as I was looking for a tent for Jean and I. I used the following points to help me limit the search. I'm a moose and she's pretty small... so I carry the tent. I want her to go so she needs to be comfortable. We aren't likely to be camping on the summit or on an exposed ridgeline when a major snow storm breaks. I hate to be damp inside the tent at night or if we are held there for a long period.

I went with the Big Agnes Emerald Mountain which after using it has enough different possible sets to handle almost anything. Except a true 4 season situation or extremely rugged use (like loaning it to the Boy Scouts).

http://www.rei.com/product/748019

I wasn't in a hurry and was able to get a great deal through Ebay. I think that if I were to go after a heavier 4 season tent I go through Ebay again looking to pickup a great tent from a couple years ago someone no longer needs.