snow camping San J - advice needed

[Audra]

Although I've done numerous backpacking trips up San J-from both Idyllwild and the tram, I haven't done any snow camping. So...this weekend a group of us were planning on heading up the tram and camping for 2-3 days at Round Valley. We've gone on snow backpacking trips before, but not up San Jacinto. I've got a few questions:

Will there still be running water available at the campsite or will we need to boil some for cooking?

Also, is it plausible to do a 2 day trip (DAY 1-tram to campsite & Day 2-summit plus hike back to tram) or should we do it in 3 days? We want to take our time and enjoy ourselves. We don't need to do it in 2 days.

Also, do we pick up wilderness permits at the ranger's office at the tram? Would love any advice from those who have camped out in the snow. We did a one day snowshoe trip last year and didn't attempt the summit cause we had a late start. It was so beautiful and we wanted to spend a few days up there this year. Thanks for any help!

[zippetydude]

Hi Audra. Welcome to the board! There's running water at Round Valley, I was there just last weekend. I suppose it could freeze up if we get a cold snap, but it was running in the morning, when it's coldest, so you're probably fine.

With regard to the hike on up to the peak, it's not very far, but with the current freeze/thaw cycle going on, you could encounter ice on the slopes above Tamarack. We did. It was my first time up through Tamarack, which I thought was very nice.

I've never camped up there, but when I was filling out my day use permit, I saw something about it being $5.00 a night for overnight permits, so I assume that's where you get them as well. Hope you have fun.

z

[Newmountaineer]

Are snowshoes necessary right now? I understand with the melt/refreeze that crampons would be necessary in places but is it softening up enough to need snowshoes during the day?

[bluerail]

microspikes are fine right now until you get to anything very steep,then maybe crampons. i saw people in snowshoes sat. and kinda felt for them. I havent used snowshoes anywhere around here in at least 3 weeks.

[zippetydude]

I didn't posthole at all, but it was getting a little slushy coming down from the peak above Tamarack. There's no fluffy snow at this point where you would need snowshoes, and I think it's too consolidated right now for postholing to be a problem in the afternoon. Crampons should be fine, though I like microspikes for 90% of the trail right now.

z

[Audra]

Thanks everyone for the help. I have a pairof crampons I'll be using for the most part, my 2 friends only have snowshoes; hope that will be adequate on some of the slopes. Anyone else going up this weekend? We;re gonna be there Thurs through Saturday.

[climberslacker]

Check my TR for the 27th & 28th, We did it in 2 days the same way as you are planning. Not bad. When we were up there there was water running in round valley. We were able to do the summit in Denali evo ascent snowshoes (SUPER grippy crampons) but I wouldn't recomend it in anything less then full crampons for the super steep stuff.

-CS

[Tim Le]

You might already know this, but just some words of caution for any other viewers out there:

Even with crampons, you really need an ice axe. Without one, if you fall and slide, you'll have no way of self-arresting. You'll pick up speed really fast and if you try to dig in with your crampons, you'll probably catch a tip and start to tumble violently. One guy recently fell down Baldy Bowl wearing crampons but had no ice axe. He was lucky to live, but lost all his fingernails while clawing at the snow to try to self-arrest, not to mention puncture wounds and lacerations to his legs from his crampons.

Lately I've seen or heard of a lot of people traveling in the snow with just crampons and no ice axe or their ice axe stowed and using their poles. When to pull out the ice axe is a personal judgment call, but IMO if you're on a steep slope or could fall down a steep slope, the axe should be out. Without it, you basically have no backup.

Personally, I don't trust climbing a steep, consolidated slope in snowshoes. You've got these big, awkward thingamabobbers on your feet with just a couple of cleats in the center. It's so easy to lose your balance. Even when climbing with crampons and an ice axe self-belayed at every step, I still focus intensely on remaining in balance and never, ever falling.

[KathyW]

You might already know this, but just some words of caution for any other viewers out there:

Even with crampons, you really need an ice axe. Without one, if you fall and slide, you'll have no way of self-arresting. You'll pick up speed really fast and if you try to dig in with your crampons, you'll probably catch a tip and start to tumble violently. One guy recently fell down Baldy Bowl wearing crampons but had no ice axe. He was lucky to live, but lost all his fingernails while clawing at the snow to try to self-arrest, not to mention puncture wounds and lacerations to his legs from his crampons.

Lately I've seen or heard of a lot of people traveling in the snow with just crampons and no ice axe or their ice axe stowed and using their poles. When to pull out the ice axe is a personal judgment call, but IMO if you're on a steep slope or could fall down a steep slope, the axe should be out. Without it, you basically have no backup.

Personally, I don't trust climbing a steep, consolidated slope in snowshoes. You've got these big, awkward thingamabobbers on your feet with just a couple of cleats in the center. It's so easy to lose your balance. Even when climbing with crampons and an ice axe self-belayed at every step, I still focus intensely on remaining in balance and never, ever falling.

Very true

[Audra]

We all have ice axes and know how to use them. Thanks again for the input.