Immunization to rattler bites

[zippetydude]

I've heard you can get your dog immunized to rattler bites. Does anyone know why this is not available to people? I'd still avoid getting in bad situations, but it would be a relief when I'm on Skyline in the dark, or on narrow trails like the PCT that get partially overgrown...

z

[bluerail]

thanks Zip, you just made my sat. morning that much more worry free.

[magikwalt]

I heard that the animal program has one big draw back. Once your pet is immunized they can't take the antivenom again. That means its the dog with antivenom one on one with the bite. Hope he makes it.

[asabat]

I heard that the animal program has one big draw back. Once your pet is immunized they can't take the antivenom again. That means its the dog with antivenom one on one with the bite. Hope he makes it.

Really??? My dog gets the vaccine booster every year. I was told it doesn't eliminate the need for antivenom if it gets bit, it just gives me more time to get the dog to the vet. My dog's outside during the day, and I don't want to come home and find her dead of a snake bite in the yard.

[zippetydude]

I may have it confused, but I heard it just the other way around from what Walt said - I heard if they ever have to treat you for a bite with anti-venin, that's your one shot. After the couse of treatment, your body develops a reaction to it, and if you were treated again with anti-venin, you would die faster from the anti-venin than you would from a snake bite.

I don't know if that's true or not. Anyone else?

z

[bluerail]

If I'm ever a dog...I hope my owner gets this one straight.

[phydeux]

Maybe its related to the way they make the anti-venom, by injecting sheep/goats/horses with venom, extracting the blood after the 'reaction', then purifying out the serum that has a somewhat antibodic-type reaction when used as an antivenom. Some persons/animals can be highly allergic to the antivenom serum depending on how it was made (what animal's blood was used) and go into anaphylactic (sp?) shock. Similar to eggs being used to make flu vaccine, so folks allergic to chickens don't get vaccinated.

From what I remember from biochemistry, the antivenom is not given to produce antibodies against a microbe (like the flu or polio virus), but to neutralize the venom's chemicals; once they are neutralized they simple flush out of the body naturally over time. Also, the antivenom has to be administered as symptoms develop, since you never know how much venom the snake injected, and usually the victim won't know what particular species of rattler bit them; you could recieve multiple vials of the stuff if the symptoms persist over a lengthy period of time.

Best bet is take precautions to avoid being bit. (limit your hiking to wintertime when the ground's covered with snow! )

[neverwashasbeen]

Here is a link to Red Rock Biologics who developed the rattlesnake immunization for dogs.

http://www.redrockbiologics.com/risks.html

[magikwalt]

Thanks Asabat for helping to extract my foot from where I stuck it. I can only blame it on lack of sleep, excess age and too little beer.

Here is some info from Wiki:

In the U.S. the only approved antivenom for pit viper (rattlesnake, copperhead and water moccasin) snakebite is based on a purified product made in sheep known as Cro-Fab. It was approved by the FDA in October, 2000. U.S. Coral snake antivenom is no longer manufactured and remaining stocks of in-date antivenom for coral snakebite will expire in the Fall of 2009 leaving the U.S. without a Coral snake antivenom at this time (January, 2009). Efforts are being made to obtain approval for a Coral snake antivenom produced in Mexico which would work against U.S. coral snakebite but such approval remains speculative.

[Mike P]

I've heard you can get your dog immunized to rattler bites. Does anyone know why this is not available to people? I'd still avoid getting in bad situations, but it would be a relief when I'm on Skyline in the dark, or on narrow trails like the PCT that get partially overgrown...

z

Oops, sorry a little late to this party...

In a nutshell:

1) The safety and and efficacy requirements for animal medicine (esp. vaccines) is much less stringent than in humans. Therefore, products can get to market much faster and and at less (though, by no means cheap) cost.
2) A vaccine for one species doesn't automatically equate to being available and effective for other species. Lots of physiologic variables...
3) I have always questioned the efficacy of this particular vaccine when rattlesnake venom composition is so highly variable.
FWIW, Mike P (DVM)