Leading a group up C2C soon? Please read ...

[cynthia23]

A few weeks ago there was a post by a gentleman who was planning on leading a group hike this month and asked for advice. Today I saw a situation which echoed some concerns raised in that post.

This a.m. I went up Skyline just to the top of the Shady Slope (i.e. about 3000 or so). Because I was only going part way I left late, at 7.20. While going up the Desert Museum I saw a group of hikers who concerned me, as they were pretty clearly planning on going to the tram. By then it was getting warm, of course (high today in Palm Springs in the nineties) and yet they were just leaving, and proceeding rather slowly up. The group leader was fit and moving pretty quickly, his female friend was pretty strong, and they had a male friend who was struggling to keep up--breathing hard, sweatily heavily, etc. Somewhere below them, apparently, was another female, trailing far behind.

Long story short, I told the first woman I thought their group had left much too late on such a warm day and was moving too slowly--i.e. at my glacial pace-- to be sure of getting to the tram before dark. The woman was polite but didn't want to hear it, so I moved on. The group leader shot ahead, his female friend a little behind, and their buddy hurried to keep up. The female friend and buddy were behind me for a while, and then I lost track of them because, I think, they went up one of the shortcuts.

After a bite to eat at 3000, I headed down. At ten o'clock, At the bottom of the Shady Slope, i.e. around 2700, I ran into the 'slow' woman, who was heading up. She told me they left the Museum shortly after 7 a.m, and it was now nearly ten, so it had taken her almost three hours to get to the bottom of Shady Slope. Yet she was still plodding upward. I asked her if her friends---who were now, it appeared, a good two hours above her-- were going to wait for her--she said no. I asked if she'd ever done Skyline before--no. I asked if she had GPS--no. While she didn't appear to be badly fatigued, had another two liters of water, was young and appeared fit, her situation--i.e. heading very slowly up a trail she'd never done before and would probably be on, completely alone, until after dark--alarmed me and I urged her to consider returning, or at least turn back soon. I'm hoping she did but at last sight she was plodding slowly up. At the pace she was going, I don't see how she could possibly get to Flat Rock before 4 pm, and that's assuming she did not grow too fatigued or dehydrated to continue at all. I'm also concerned that, if she did turn around, she didn't wait too long to do so. It was hot going down today, and I was down by 11.30.

Here's my point: if you are leading a group hike, then you must be a LEADER. If you invite people to hike with you, you are responsible for their safety. You CAN"T leave the 'slow people' behind to 'catch up', and certainly not a lone person who has never been on the trail before! I was appalled by what her so-called 'friends' did. If you are planning on leading a group hike, you MUST stay together and someone should be the 'sweep' to make sure the slowest member is not left behind. If you don't like those restrictions, then you should hike with just one or two friends whose fitness level is well known and close to your own. Organizing a group hike means you must place your responsibility to others over your desire to make a fast time.

Let's all keep a good thought for that young woman--I hope she will be okay.

[Florian]

Kind of upsetting to read this. Sigh.

-Florian

[bluerail]

the trail was very crowded yesterday and the heat took many by suprise. By the time many of them reached the trees they were out of water and it was warm up there as well. I hope she turned back sounds like she wwas on a 6 liter pace.

[Ed]

I saw a group that was much better than the one Cynthia saw, but still concerned me, for the same reasons.

I think they were the group that started up a few minutes before me at 4:30am. I could tell from their conversation that they were first-timers, but they sounded confident. Then I heard someone say 'I've read up on this route, and I hear you can save quite a bit of time cutting switchbacks.' I shouted up my opinion of that, throttling back on the language I wanted to use.

Well below the First Rescue Box, one member was straggling, breathing hard, and exerting a great deal of willpower to keep up. I thought of taking him aside and advising him to turn back before it warmed up, but decided that it would seem patronizing, and that he was the type of person who could and would keep going on willpower for a long time before he gave up, regardless of my advice.

Around 3600', the leader checked his altimeter and announced that it was some altitude that I don't recall exactly, but it was certainly above 4300'. That was the last I saw of them until somewhere below the Traverse, the leader and another member pushed past me. About ten minutes later, I found them sitting astride the trail, in a place where it was difficult to move around them. The leader said 'I can't move.' I asked them if anybody had turned back. They said they didn't know, everybody was strung out.

The leader seemed like a nice enough guy, and I suspect that in the end everything was ok. But I do fault him for leading a group up the trail when (a) he had not done the trail himself, (b) he had not screened the group rigorously enough, and (c) he ended up abandoning the group to make the best time he could. He also needs to keep his altimeter calibrated.

P.S. At one point, Doreen and I both passed the group at about the same time. I turned to Doreen and said 'I'm a kind guy, I didn't tell them you'd done the trail 297 times.'

[cynthia23]

LOL Ed!

Yep, Bluerail, I agree at her pace her water would surely run out. I'm guessing/hoping she turned back because otherwise I think there was a high probability she'd have needed a rescue. Still, as Ed mentions, sometimes people can surprise you and manage to gut their way through (or in this case, up.)

It sounds like I was not the only one to run into struggling novices yesterday. It never fails to amaze me that people don't seem to do the most basic thing: check the weather forecast ahead of time. It's pretty simple, folks: if you've never done it before, and the forecast Palm Springs weather is over 90 degrees, reschedule to a day when temps are in the low 80's--like next weekend.

[bytebit]

As a hike leader RESPONSIBLITY is the primary focus from the beginning to end. Be VERY CLEAR on stated objectives and the challenges with the hike BEFORE it begins. Hope she is OK.

Be well, David

[zippetydude]

This weather is a contributing factor as well. The average hi/lo is 80/54, whereas on Saturday it was 91/64. That's a significant difference - first timers may not realize how much difference 10 degrees can make.

z

[cynthia23]

Absolutely agree Zip, weather is perhaps THE most significant factor on Skyline and a ten degree difference can truly be huge.

I think that in the group I ran into on Saturday, the head guy probably did not perceive himself as 'leading' a 'group' but just someone who had invited some friends to hike with him. People need to grasp that like it or not, any time you invite people to join you on a hike, you have created a group and you are indeed the leader. As was said above by Bytebit, responsibility is your number one job.