Hiker dies on Museum Trail, Palm Springs 5/11/13

[Screerider]

Stairs are very dangerous also, many deaths there. We all need to be careful.

While that can be great reasoning, it really doesn't apply directly to this situation. The logic simply escapes too many people. There's just too many elevators out there. they don't know what stairs are.

[bluerail]

I do like the way you look at things scree.

[Zé]

Was the bottom of the trail easy to follow in the dark in the early 2000's? Because by 2008, one would easily get off the "correct" path while it was dark out. Just curious how much is really due to people shortcutting in the day vs. accidentally at night.

[cynthia23]

Can't speak to the early 2000s, Ze, but in 2005 (the only year I did it in the dark several times) the trail was not at all difficult to follow down below; it only became confusing because of overgrowth past 6000 feet. At that time the trail actually became overgrown after 4300; that's how few people used it.

Carl F, I think the phrase 'spewing nonsense' or referrring to those who disagree as 'crazy' is unduly harsh. Let's dial down the acrimony and I"ll start by saying that I'm certain no one ever intended any harm to the trail. Ten years ago no one dreamed the trail would see such heavy usage and even five years ago, I'm sure the folks who created the more recent big shortcuts couldn't imagine that it would escalate so much. Now, I do think some of these folks realize it's getting out of hand and are perturbed by the visible damage, but understandably, feel that it would be very odd for them to stop taking their own shortcuts while hundreds of newcomers take them.

Not sure what the solution is, but a start would be acknowledging that the shortcutting is escalating. Every time I go up I see new damage. As I said, I think there's a contagion or escalation effect; as KathyW once remarked, even the shortcuts are getting shortcuts. I know next to nothing about trail construction but I do know that real trails are laid out to go with the terrain, not up it. The switchbacks are not irritating contrivances to frustrate hikers, but a geoengineering technique to slow down erosion and prevent trails from turning into rutted drainages. It bears repeating that Skyline is actually a 'real' trail, firmly in place for at least 20 years, apparently constructed, maybe by the WPA. It's not just a 'game' trail as many latecomers think. Also, trails are actually built--a ditch is dug out and rocks or logs are placed inside. Otherwise, they eventually sink. These shortcuts will only last a short while before they become too eroded to be usable; then new shortcuts will have to be created. The total effect of all this is growing erosion and damage. This is the consensus of science, not my personal opinion.

On a hiking board, the concept 'leave no trace' should not be controversial.

[Carl F]

I agree my comment was uncalled for I need to stop late night posting. I do read all of your posts with interest and have learned much from all of you. I am not a local and so do not understand to the degree that you all do. Was that a sentence?

[Screerider]

I have to filter the water here. There defiantly is something in it.
There's two reasons for using C2C, exercise and nature. While a few might try to boost their public image by cheating on time, for most the ego boost is internal and isn't acquired by cheating. Some people just like steep trail, others just want to get away from the tourists as fast as possible. The area below the tables is depressing. The main cut is so rocky, it is like stairs, and actually pretty stable. There isn't much we can do about this area anyway. For safety reasons a clear exit route needs to be well delineated as well as the area around '4,000. (Somebody has already started with orange peels and graffiti.)
Of course there are those who get their boost by hiking in an area of known danger. I have to admit a certain thrill in the perceived hazards.
Two trails is understandable. Ten trails is a (put bad word here)ing mess and is really inexcusable. Some concessions need to be made. There is just too many people up there not to.
I love going off trail. This is not the trail to do it on. It's too fragile and creates danger for those of less experience.
Two trails might be even better environmentally by splitting the stress on each. Some sort of compromise certainly would be.

[cynthia23]

Good points, Scree. Carl F, I appreciate the response. I've done more than a few of those late night postings too (and are you really in Bangladesh?? Not many hills to hike there!) (oops, just googled it and see you do have the Chittagong Hills!)