Icy Skyline Traverse - not feeling it

[hawkbill666]

I just had a bit of a revelation about an icy traverse, and this is related to a question I previously asked about the skyline in the winter. Last weekend I went through a day of ice axe training up on 1-90 outside of Seattle. That meant throwing myself down steep grades in every possible body position and proving I could arrest myself. There were five of us with instructors and we did it over and over again, with packs on and off, headfirst, upside down, spinning, backwards and such. It was tough, but exactly what I needed as I am learning to climb in the NW winters and eventually want to hike San Jacinto in the winter. (Snow creek, I’m coming for you!)

But here is what I learned, especially after watching athletic, 20 something mountaineers demonstrate self arrest and at times struggling. If the skyline traverse is heavily iced, and you slip, I think the chance of arresting yourself before you hit something sharp is very low. Last June when I did C2C I stopped on the traverse at times and looked down at all the sharp things, and realized how close they are. The time it will take to react and slam your ice axe into ice, multiple times (its ice!) to slow yourself, or stop…Im not feeling it. And if you end up in a body position requiring you to twist to plant your ice axe you would have already built up so much speed for a not pretty end.

Thanks to a few of you that “talked me down” when I mentioned trying this last winter, before I had clue 1 . Not saying I would not eventually do it as the level of packed snow would determine how easily the ice axe could penetrate, but I would have a backup plan involving roping myself off, or a chance for my first skyline almost up/down .

Scott

[neverwashasbeen]

Scott, I agree with your conclusions. It's nice to see some common sense. In my experience it's very difficult to do an ice axe arrest on ice. Normally ice axe arrests are done in snow.

[hawkbill666]

Yes, but its an "ice" axe right .

That was my assumption, and those things look so wicked they must be capable of going into ice. And actually they can, but when your body is sliding or tumbling the leverage is very poor, so its not something I would rely on.

But seriously I was going to rent an ice axe, watch some youtube videos, practice on my front lawn and go for it.

[bluerail]

skylines clear....no ice or snow to speak of.

[hawkbill666]

Yes, thanks.

My post wasnt referring to going up now, I was just answering what I have sometimes seen as an open question on the forum about safety of the traverse when its icey. I have heard thoughts that are all over the board. Just adding mine having invested the time in iceaxe training....

But while we are talking about iceaxes, expect an IM from me in nine months or so about snow creek

Scott

[Norris]

I don't disagree with anything said here, but just want to point out that we are not talking about the Hinterstoisser traverse here, this is low angle stuff, and also, self-arrest is not your first line of defense. You are supposed to use the axe and your crampons such that you do NOT fall. Self arrest is what you do if you screw up. If you use correct technique and belay yourself on each move with the tools, you will never need to self arrest. On the other hand, if you blithely saunter across not paying attention, posthole suddenly or slip and lose it, then yes, you could be screwed.

[KathyW]

I don't disagree with anything said here, but just want to point out that we are not talking about the Hinterstoisser traverse here, this is low angle stuff, and also, self-arrest is not your first line of defense. You are supposed to use the axe and your crampons such that you do NOT fall. Self arrest is what you do if you screw up. If you use correct technique and belay yourself on each move with the tools, you will never need to self arrest. On the other hand, if you blithely saunter across not paying attention, posthole suddenly or slip and lose it, then yes, you could be screwed.

I agree that you should not depend on self-arrest to stop a fall - it's an important tool for when you fall, but it's a lot better if you don't fall. I also think on the uphill to be in self-belay position with your axe is probably not a bad idea. On the downhill when the risk of falling is greater, self-arrest position is probably a good idea. I'm no expert though, and I'm also a bit of a chicken when it comes to sketchy conditions.

At the same time, you do deal with a pretty sketchy traverse on the skyline trail up there above 7000' if the conditions are right, and if you fall in that section you're going to fall far and fast unless you crash into rocks or a tree first - It doesn't sound like we ever got those conditions this winter. So, sometimes low angle trails are treacherous because they traverse over some pretty steep slopes where there isn't a safe run-out.